Interview: The intimate adventures of a 21 year old traveling girl with Marisa

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi. Welcome back to closeness, your source for all things intimate as they pertain to your single, dating and otherwise married life. As many of you probably already know, I'm extremely passionate about travel and I've lived in Italy for two separate years of my life. I've also spent another two and a half years traveling the planet to countless different countries as well, teaching and sharing some of my special gifts and offerings, all while cozily piling everything into 150 pound suitcase. Now, in doing so, of course, I've amassed quite a collection of stories and adventures to share. However, we're going to save all of those stories for another podcast because today we're going to tell our story from a very different perspective. And that perspective comes in the form of a 21 year old girl. As such, of course, the first two thirds of this interview is going to be very juicy. We'll be talking about sex, dating, traveling, all of those things. But also you're going to want to stay through with us till the very end because we'll be discussing some subjects that are extremely sensitive, heavy, and maybe even in some ways difficult to listen to. But more importantly, and aside from the incredible survival story that we'll hear about later, this is an excerpt from a real person's life. Someone who went through all of these things and lived all of these things and still, despite all types of adversity, managed to come out on top. And I think that makes for an absolutely incredible story to share while still giving it the utmost respect. We've been wanting to put it out now for many, many months, and now finally, it's time to share with the rest of the world. I don't want to give away too much. And so, without further ado, we are sitting here today with a dear friend of mine named Marissa. She's got both Greek and Scottish heritage, which is very unique. So depending on what part of the planet you come from, you can call her Marissa or Marisa. She has just turned 21 years old and is a bit of a world traveler. She's got her own travel blog, her own website, her own YouTube channel and Instagram, which we'll tell you about at the end of the show. And I'd love to welcome you to this show. Hi. [00:02:00] Speaker B: Hi. Thank you. [00:02:02] Speaker A: My pleasure. You and I have done a lot of talking about traveling, and you told me that it was one of your biggest passions. I'd love to hear just a little bit more about that. What inspires you to do it? What do you love about it? Just sort of the general positives that you get out of traveling already this young. [00:02:17] Speaker B: Okay. So I started traveling about three years ago when I went to university in Scotland. And when I was little, I always believed that you had to have a lot of money and a lot of time to be able to travel. And when I went to Scotland and I just started going on day trips and started staying in hostels, I realized that you don't need a lot of money or a lot of time to be able to see a place or meet people. And then I went on my first solo trip. I went to Finland for six months. [00:02:51] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Just by yourself? [00:02:52] Speaker B: Yes. [00:02:53] Speaker A: It just packed up and showed up in the other country? [00:02:55] Speaker B: Yes. And I was very nervous. I was scared. I almost didn't go on the plane. I couldn't even get out of my bed that day to go to the airport because I was so stressed. [00:03:06] Speaker A: Did you have any plans when you were going to show up? Was anyone there to meet you? [00:03:10] Speaker B: No. I had a plan where I was going to stay, but I didn't know anyone. I didn't know what I was going to do. [00:03:16] Speaker A: Wow, that's wild. And you planned to be there that long? [00:03:19] Speaker B: Yes. [00:03:20] Speaker A: That's incredible. So literally, when you showed up at the airport, you weren't sure where you were going to go next? [00:03:26] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:03:26] Speaker A: My God. For how long was that terrifying before it became exciting? [00:03:31] Speaker B: When I was on the plane and a few minutes after we took off, I started feeling happy and excited and I felt proud of myself for doing this. I didn't know exactly what was going to happen when I got there, but it did end up being the best time of my life. I met incredible people. I saw the Northern lights and we just traveled around Finland, Norway, Sweden. [00:03:58] Speaker A: So how did you find a place to live right off the bat? [00:04:01] Speaker B: Oh, well, I did organize that online before I. [00:04:05] Speaker A: So you had somewhere to go. [00:04:08] Speaker B: And that was the first time I wasn't working for six months. It was quite scary for me, like spending money, traveling and not having any income. [00:04:16] Speaker A: Income come in. Yeah. [00:04:17] Speaker B: So I had to be really careful. I had to do things that didn't really involve spending money. [00:04:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Actually, let's talk about that for a minute because you probably have a really good list of things that don't cost money. Like, I know I love seeing big parks and cities or just walking around certain areas and checking out architecture. What are some of your favorites? [00:04:35] Speaker B: Definitely hiking. That's a big thing, watching the sunset every time I go travel and I'll make sure I see the sunset from a different location every day. Usually the sunrise as well. [00:04:47] Speaker A: Yeah. In Finland, it must have been beautiful. [00:04:49] Speaker B: Finland, yes. Hiking, of course. That was a really big thing. That's where I got into hiking more. [00:04:55] Speaker A: Yeah. So today we live in a culture where it seems like what you're doing would be very socially acceptable, given that we're way less traditional than we ever were. But in many ways, I feel like many women would probably be scared for you and worried about you and maybe even friends or family members, some of them thinking, like, why would you do this? Do you get a lot of that backlash from people? [00:05:17] Speaker B: Yes. The first question I always get asked is, when I say that I went somewhere is, oh, who did you go with? And when I say, oh, no one. Just on my own, they're shocked. They'll ask me, oh, how were you? Okay. [00:05:33] Speaker A: Do you feel like people get worried for you? [00:05:36] Speaker B: Yes, definitely. My roommates, my friends, they'll message me. They'll make sure I'm okay, and they'll always tell me, oh, I was worried about you when you left. [00:05:46] Speaker A: How old were you when you did this Finland trip? [00:05:50] Speaker B: 19. [00:05:50] Speaker A: Wow. The most intense thing I did at 19 was I had moved off to college, which was like an hour away from the family, up at university, but it was moving out for the first time. So amazing. How do you feel when people greet you with concern instead of excitement about traveling? Does it make you think anything or have any weird thoughts? [00:06:11] Speaker B: I just wish that they got to feel the same way that I do when I travel at least once. [00:06:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And we should amplify that for a moment, because there is a feeling, I'll use my words, and you see if you agree, or you could add on your own, but there is a feeling of total freedom. And I knew as soon as you said when I got on that plane, it's like, oh, my gosh, you're cutting cords. The world is ahead of you. Total, clean adventure. You have no idea what's going to happen next. Every single thing is going to be fresh and exciting and new, and it may be an emotional journey, but it's all going to be an adventure. [00:06:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:46] Speaker A: Does that kind of sum up the feeling that you get? Yeah. I totally understand. As a 19 or 20 or now barely 21 year old traveler, I imagine you've had an enormous amount of positive, unforgettable experiences. [00:06:59] Speaker B: Yes. [00:07:00] Speaker A: And I want to talk about more of those. But have you had what everyone is worried about? Which are these dangerous situations, predatory men, people you can't say no to, finding yourself in situations you can't get out of feeling? Scared. I don't want to activate this a ton for you, but just what I feel like the world is concerned about is that someone who's young and pretty and sweet and sort of new to the world, many people think that you don't know what to look out for, even how to look out for it. So can you talk a little bit about what your experience in that is? [00:07:33] Speaker B: I've never really had a bad experience while traveling. I have to be sensible, especially because I'm traveling on my own. But I believe that anyone who's traveling to a new place, either with friends or family, they always have to be extra careful. But, for example, I will never drink when I'm traveling on my own. Even if I meet people that I trust, I will still not drink because I'm in a new place with new people. I might not remember exactly where my accommodation is. I'll make sure my phone is charged always and that I carry a portable charger. I can be able to find my way around or call for help if needed. But I've never had a bad experience while traveling. [00:08:20] Speaker A: I love hearing this. I love hearing this. And I don't want to minimize anyone who has. And I don't want to minimize anyone who has bad experiences with people. But what I love that you're sharing is the true possibility of experiencing life. You can go through life and happen to not have any terrifying or bad experiences. When you say you haven't had any bad experiences, does that mean that you have trusted everyone that you've met? [00:08:46] Speaker B: No. I've had men approach me when I'm traveling and not in bars, but while I'm taking photos in the daytime, they'll start conversations. They'll ask me if I'm traveling on my own, what I'm doing, and depending on how I feel, if I feel in danger or not, I might say, oh, no, I'm with my friends here. Or I will say the truth. I'm traveling on my own. [00:09:16] Speaker A: Yeah, we all know what a vibe is and what kind of an energy or aura, whatever words you want to use, you get a sense of someone if you feel safe or not. Can you articulate any specifics about what makes you trust someone versus not? It's a tough question. When you meet someone. Typically, people like to say, I just feel it. I just don't feel that right. And that's cool. I understand. That's kind of intuition. But are there other signs? Like, perhaps, is someone more aggressive or assertive or loud or weird or sensual or sexual? [00:09:51] Speaker B: Sometimes I will notice that he's looking around first to see if someone else is listening. Also, if his first question is, am I traveling on my own? Because I have had other people ask me, oh, where are you from and what are you doing here? Is this your first day here? Which is fine because they're just making conversation. But if the first question is, oh, are you here alone? Where are you staying? [00:10:14] Speaker A: It's like a recipe for kidnapping or something. It's crazy. You're talking about being very sensible. What are Some things that you feel like you do that are sensible, such as never leaving your bag unattended? [00:10:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And I will go out at nighttime. I will go to a bar or a club. Like I said. I won't drink, though. At a club, I will pretend sometimes that I'm waiting on someone, like on a friend, because I love dancing, and I love just dancing with strangers and having fun. But if someone asks, I'll just look on my phone and pretend that I'm waiting for someone. If I feel uncomfortable, if I'm taking an Uber late at night, I might screenshot the person and his car and everything, and I'll just send it to my mom. I won't say anything to her. I'll just send it and she knows, just in case. And if someone offers me a ride, of course. Or says, oh, you can stay at mine, of course. [00:11:13] Speaker A: I know it's such a tough topic because I think a lot of us want to believe in the goodness of humanity, that if someone offers you something that they kind of want to help you and they want to be good and do something for you. But the other truth of that is that no one does anything without wanting something in return. Very few people, I think, if any, truly just offer something without any expectation. And the expectation, because I know many people are probably listening to this and thinking, well, I do things that are nice for people all the time, and I don't expect anything back. I'm a model citizen. But there's a feeling that's associated with that, which is that you are being helpful. You're being needed, you're being useful, you're being kind. And I feel like that feeling that you get when you do help someone that feels so good. I have this belief system. It's a little strange, but it's that we all are selfishly oriented, whether we like it or not or whether we believe it or not. So even if I say, I'm never selfish, I only do things for other people. I give and give and give and give and give. At the bottom of that is because I'm feeling needed and I want to feel a part of something, and I'm feeling useful when it comes to, in my opinion, singLe, young traveling women on their own. That really changes the game, because I would be willing to bet that it's not very often that you have women come up and approach you, just offering you to stay with them and to be with them. Right? Would that be true? Yes, it's almost always men. Well, why is that? And I would venture to say it's because they ultimately either want to have sex with you or get to know you or have a relationship with you of some sort. [00:12:46] Speaker B: Yes, I agree. [00:12:49] Speaker A: Traveling probably doesn't really allow you to have traditional relationships. [00:12:55] Speaker B: Yes, I have tried, but the more I travel, the longer I'm away. It's just not going to work out. [00:13:02] Speaker A: What do you think about long distance? [00:13:04] Speaker B: I've tried. [00:13:08] Speaker A: Do you like it? [00:13:09] Speaker B: No. [00:13:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Was it long distant monogamous? [00:13:12] Speaker B: Yes. [00:13:14] Speaker A: Personally, long distance monogamy I find to be an extremely challenging perspective. Personally, maintaining a long distance relationship and a committed monogamous relationship takes incredible work and incredible restraint and patience. I'm not a fan of it. Even though I've done it in the past and done it successfully during that time, I find that it's just. Well, the idea is you cannot touch or intimately interact with any other person on the planet, but you also can't talk to, but you also can't touch or play with or interact with me because, oh, by the way, I'm 20,000 miles away. So to some degree, it feels like you're just practicing celibacy with some nice video chat calls in between. In a way, it's like a relationship that exists exclusively over texting and messaging and absolutely zero physical contact. So it makes it incredibly difficult for anyone who values physical intimacy to deeply connect or even feel like they're really involved with someone who they can't ever touch. And that's huge. You can't touch the person that you care about the most. And then, as if all that weren't bad enough, when you travel, and especially for most women, inevitably and almost ten out of ten times, there's always a circumstance that was unexpected or took you completely by surprise, or you didn't expect to meet this person here, or someone had an opportunity to share with you. Maybe you just met someone in the park where you were walking, minding your own business, or you didn't expect to go to a concert tonight, or you sat next to someone on the airplane and all these things are great when you're single, but when you're not, it really calls integrity into question. So when you travel, you talk to different people, you get different perspective, you're attracting different life experiences, and almost always that's going to be with the expectation of you being intimate. [00:14:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:59] Speaker A: So would you say that you made a conscious decision to be single? [00:15:03] Speaker B: Yes. [00:15:03] Speaker A: And do you like that? [00:15:05] Speaker B: Yes, I really like being single because when I was in a relationship, I just didn't feel free. Even when I was traveling, I just couldn't enjoy it as much. Even if I wasn't having sex, I still couldn't maybe go out dancing with a stranger because I just had in the back of my head, oh, is this right? Is this wrong? And maybe my boyfriend was a bit jealous. He was wondering if I was actually having sex with someone while I'm traveling. And also, my ex never supported me. He was never happy for me. When I traveled, he wanted to travel as well. And I tried to convince him to travel as well, either with me or alone. I told him, you have the money, you have the time, why don't you travel? And he just couldn't answer that. [00:15:59] Speaker A: Yeah. What do you think? He was afraid? [00:16:01] Speaker B: Yeah. And also. [00:16:05] Speaker A: Traveling with another person is interesting. I may have mentioned that to you earlier. I actually have traveled with a girlfriend. It was really nice for a while. It was really beautiful. I feel like it stops being about your experience with the world and becomes this couple's experience together, seeing all these things. [00:16:23] Speaker B: Yes. [00:16:23] Speaker A: And I feel like that shuts down naturally a lot of opportunities and experiences just by default because you're so focused on each other. And also, again, probably, you know, if you're traveling with a man, you're not going to have any other men come up to you and be like, let me take you on this kayaking adventure. Let me show you this hike that I like so much because you're coupled with someone so you miss out. Would you agree that a lot of the things that men offer you are because you're a young, attractive girl? [00:16:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:55] Speaker A: Can you sense that or feel that in any way? [00:16:58] Speaker B: Sometimes, yeah. [00:16:59] Speaker A: Sometimes on other podcasts I'll have the conversation or with other people that women often like to say. I have these male friends who just love to help me do stuff or they just do this stuff for me. And I'll say, why do you think that is? And they'll say, because they're a kind person or it's a kind gesture, or they just enjoy helping people. To which I say, oh, can I get a concert ticket, too, and get my house cleaned and get a truck to help me move this piece of furniture and get VIP access to clubs and special events, be taken to dinner, be taken on a boat, be taken on a yacht, be taken to incredible experiences and adventures, et cetera, et cetera. Of course, the answer is always no, and it's okay, but it's just sort of an acknowledgment of how the world works. For further details, see my episode on can men and women be Friends? But you also are very comfortable around sex? [00:17:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:48] Speaker A: Do you think of yourself as a free spirit? [00:17:50] Speaker B: Yes. [00:17:51] Speaker A: Okay. So then do you think that traveling has made you more sexually adventurous or that you've always had that in you? [00:18:00] Speaker B: It's definitely made me more. Meeting more people from different countries, different backgrounds, different ages has definitely changed that. [00:18:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Does it turn you on or excite you when something is new or novel? [00:18:16] Speaker B: Yes. [00:18:18] Speaker A: What is it that turns you on about the idea of that? [00:18:21] Speaker B: I love trying new things and the excitement of is it going to be good because they're from different countries, cultures. [00:18:32] Speaker A: And languages and ways of expressing themselves and ways that they interact with you? [00:18:37] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. [00:18:39] Speaker A: When you're traveling, do you find yourself initiating what percentage of the time? Or are men pretty much just approaching you and you get to decide if and when and how you want to proceed? [00:18:51] Speaker B: A little bit of both, I guess. It just depends where I am, how confident I'm feeling. Usually I'm never going out to find someone to sleep with, but it will just naturally happen. Sometimes I'll meet someone and I'll feel attracted to them. [00:19:13] Speaker A: If you're initiating, what would be an example of something that you do? [00:19:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I will definitely maybe look and make sure that they see that I'm looking and I'll smile and I'll do that a few times and maybe I will go up and talk to them. It just depends also if they're with a group of friends. [00:19:31] Speaker A: Yeah. And I don't want to hammer it, but I sort of want to ask you again in a different way so you never have to beat guys away and constantly say no. Or constantly get a guy who's too persistent, but you're not interested. [00:19:45] Speaker B: It does happen, but I've just learned to. If I really don't want to, I'll just say no. [00:19:52] Speaker A: Right. [00:19:53] Speaker B: And I'll kind of push them away. [00:19:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Now, when it is a guy who you like, is there something exciting about his aggression or being forward? [00:20:05] Speaker B: I wasn't sure how to answer that. Yes. [00:20:10] Speaker A: Yeah. What are some qualities that you find exciting or that turn you on when you're meeting all these new people? What's the difference between someone who's going to make the cut and get to spend time with you and get to know you on a much deeper level versus someone who you're just like, no. [00:20:24] Speaker B: Confidence is something really important, that he's confident, and we don't have to have a lot in common. But obviously traveling is a big thing for me, right? Because I've had a few guys ask me, oh, why do you travel? And that's an instant no for me, because if he doesn't understand why someone would travel or why is traveling so amazing? That's definitely a big turn off for me. [00:20:53] Speaker A: You were telling me the other day of an experience you had once where you were with someone who you actually wanted to have sex with. You were in the same room and you were talking for a long period of time. You were ready, you wanted to, you were extremely turned on, but he just. [00:21:10] Speaker B: Never made the move, or he didn't even try. [00:21:14] Speaker A: Did you know that he did want you, though? [00:21:16] Speaker B: Yes. [00:21:18] Speaker A: This is such an interesting place to be. Right? Especially, I think, for all men and women to hear, because I think so many women are terrified of even making the first move or initiating. It's very interesting that two people can be in a room alone wanting to have sex with each other, and it doesn't happen. What's going on? What do you think about that? [00:21:36] Speaker B: I'm not always expecting for the guy to make the first move, but I knew he likes me. He had let somebody else know, my friend, that he liked me and that he wanted something to happen, and he just didn't make any moves or he didn't say anything. And it did turn me off because it wasn't only that he wasn't making a move, but he just seemed so shy and so unconfident. And that did turn me off. [00:22:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you know why that is? Do you know why that is sexually unattractive to you? Can you put words to it? [00:22:14] Speaker B: I just want the guy to be more aggressive. [00:22:18] Speaker A: Okay. Does dominant resonate with you too? [00:22:20] Speaker B: Yes. [00:22:21] Speaker A: Tell me a little bit more about what you like about people being aggressive with you. [00:22:26] Speaker B: Well, if I'm attracted to him, then I just really like him being aggressive and taking control. [00:22:34] Speaker A: So would you say that if you're attracted to a guy and you like him, I know at some point there's limits, but can he do anything to you? [00:22:43] Speaker B: Yes. That turns me on even more. Knowing that he can do anything. [00:22:48] Speaker A: He can have you or have his way with you sort of thing. What about stronger acts of aggression? Like, do you like being pinned down, choked a little bit or maybe slapped a little bit? [00:23:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:02] Speaker A: I really appreciate the honesty. You are certainly not the only one. It's actually quite common to have desires like that, but I think it's a bit of taboo to speak about them publicly. So amazing that you can. Now, of course you like that sort of thing when we're talking about someone who you like and you're attracted to. But the interesting juxtaposition here is it is a form of, you might say, violence. So do you ever come across someone who is aggressive in that way with you doing the things that you like, but you don't like it or they go too far with it? [00:23:36] Speaker B: Yes. Especially if I am not attracted to them, then I obviously don't want them to be aggressive or even try to make a move. [00:23:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. We're going to go back to what we were talking about, but do you have tools to stop that or shut that down? Do you do anything or act differently, or do you say stop? No. Or don't? [00:23:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I will definitely act differently and I will show them that I'm not interested. I won't look at them as much. I'll show them that I'm a bit annoyed. Maybe if they're trying too hard because it's happened before that a few guys haven't. They just can't see that I'm not interested. [00:24:15] Speaker A: Right. They can't believe it or imagine it. [00:24:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:18] Speaker A: How could it be? Do you ever say, I'm not interested? [00:24:22] Speaker B: I have no. [00:24:25] Speaker A: Please allow me to share this magical phrase to you and the world. There's a common theme, especially for young women, to feel like they can't really say no. Or you could tell me, is it like you don't want them to feel bad? [00:24:36] Speaker B: Yes, I feel bad. I feel bad that I will make them feel bad. [00:24:40] Speaker A: Them feel bad. Right. And I think the most important thing for people to know is that what's important is your safety first. Quite literally, that you don't get hurt and that you're able to stay in a safe environment, including moments when you want something intense or violent done to you at the degree and level that you feel comfortable and safe receiving it. I mean, to me, that's why communication is essential, because you could feel differently every step along the way. And when you're playing with fire, when you're playing with things that are more acts of aggression like that, there has to be a way for it to completely stop if you suddenly feel uncomfortable or you change your mind. For both people involved, of course, I've. [00:25:20] Speaker B: Had guys before say, oh, well, I didn't want to do anything anyway, or well, you're an ugly bitch anyway. [00:25:30] Speaker A: Yeah, it's really ugly. It's just an ego deflection. It's simply a retaliation to try to not feel bad or look bad. And it's one of the ways, unfortunately, that men in their shadow side handle rejection. I mean, what we're talking about here is men's work, men's responsibility, men's consciousness, awareness, respect, manners. I think it's a two way street. Is women being able to speak up and do rejecting in a polite and friendly way when possible, and then men hearing it and receiving it for what it is, allowing things to be or leave if necessary, or not continue to pursue. But the point of all this being, in my opinion, when you're interacting with someone new for the first, 2nd or third time, I think there is a necessity to say those three words. I'm not interested because it sets a very clear spoken boundary that everyone can understand and there's no gray and there's no room for misinterpretation. So it's like, until you've said that, I think a lot of men aren't clear. Is she playing hard to get? Is this just her way? If I ask three times, is she finally going to say yes and all of that? It's stressful for everyone. We don't want to go through it, and a lot of guys can't read the symbols and whatnot. [00:26:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:44] Speaker A: Okay. Do you feel like you do anything, whether it's physical or with your body language, to let a man know what you do, like when you are attracted to him and say you want him to be more aggressive with you. How would he know that? [00:27:02] Speaker B: I sometimes try to make myself look more innocent. [00:27:07] Speaker A: Very interesting. How do you do that? [00:27:09] Speaker B: Mostly with my eyes and with my body. I'll have to. Words. [00:27:16] Speaker A: I don't want to put any words in your mouth, so I'll just offer and you tell me if they resonate. You try to make yourself look more vulnerable. Weak. [00:27:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:26] Speaker A: Like a little flower ready to be plucked. [00:27:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:31] Speaker A: I mean, you know that that works. Maybe now, but why do you think that looking vulnerable and innocent would cue a man into fucking you harder? Taking you or being more rough or aggressive with you? [00:27:46] Speaker B: I just found that it worked. Those guys. And they've even told me maybe after sex. Oh, that turned me on. So much that you look so sweet and innocent, young. [00:27:59] Speaker A: It's interesting. It's an interesting subject to me because you don't immediately think that because something looks fragile or delicate that you want to hurt them or be aggressive with them or be dominant or overpowering. It's more like, ooh, I want to take care of this precious, fragile object. When you walk into a china shop, when you walk near crystals and stemware, you don't want to break it. [00:28:21] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. But a lot of guys, sometimes guys are surprised that I really liked rough sex because they said that when they met me, I was so shy and I looked innocent that they didn't expect that from me, where other times they do expect it because I look innocent. They've even said to me, oh, yeah, that's what happens. Innocent girls are the ones that surprise you. [00:28:48] Speaker A: Yeah. What do you think would happen? Or. I don't know if you have come across this, if a man who you do like is too soft or gentle or delicate with you. [00:29:00] Speaker B: It has happened before, and I'll just try to slap. [00:29:04] Speaker A: Him around a little bit, rough him up and say. [00:29:08] Speaker B: I'll just maybe tough. [00:29:12] Speaker A: Do you become more dominant or more aggressive? [00:29:15] Speaker B: Yes, sometimes I'll become more dominant enough to make him then take control. [00:29:22] Speaker A: Take control of you. Interesting. What does your version of dominance look like? What are three or four or five things that you do to be more assertive or dominant? [00:29:32] Speaker B: It's also the way I look at them, and I'll just be more confident. I'll go on top and I'll maybe scratch her back a bit more or try and take as much control as possible. [00:29:46] Speaker A: Does it feel weird as a woman or to be in your feminine and be dominant? [00:29:50] Speaker B: No. [00:29:50] Speaker A: You don't mind it? [00:29:52] Speaker B: No. [00:29:52] Speaker A: Okay. Do you feel like it's for anyone to do, man or woman, or do you have a preference or feel like you prefer a man to be dominant or aggressive with you? [00:30:03] Speaker B: I personally prefer the man to be dominant, yeah. [00:30:08] Speaker A: Do you find that you can or. It's easy for you to reach orgasm. Come when you're having sex with someone new while you're traveling? [00:30:16] Speaker B: Yes. It's happened before that I haven't been able to the first time because sometimes they might have been confident when we met, but when it's actually closed off. [00:30:29] Speaker A: They feel intimidated or shy. So even your orgasm will be affected by a man's lack of confidence. And it's such a tricky subject because when you're not attracted to someone, this is why I'm so big about being clear. Right. I'm not attracted to you. I'm not interested. Because when you don't want attention from a man, anything that he's doing to you or showing to you is like just such a turn off. You don't want any part of it. But if he happens to be lucky enough to be someone who you want, well, sky's the limit. I mean, he can do anything. [00:31:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:03] Speaker A: That's always an interesting thing. Okay. So a man's confidence for you is, like, literally paramount. For you to either get wet, be excited, have an orgasm, he has to be confident. [00:31:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:14] Speaker A: How would you describe a man's confidence? Do you want me to give you some? Okay. The way that he looks at you, the way he stands or holds his body in a confident and open and powerful way. [00:31:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:29] Speaker A: Takes the lead and takes control, does whatever he wants to you. [00:31:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:37] Speaker A: Is selfish for his own pleasure. [00:31:41] Speaker B: Sometimes in sex, I won't even care if I reach an orgasm as long as he looks satisfied. [00:31:51] Speaker A: It sounds like you're saying that sex is so enjoyable for you that whether you have an orgasm or not, you get a lot of enjoyment out of. [00:31:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:00] Speaker A: Okay. Seeing his pleasure or that sort of thing, or that makes you feel satisfied, desired. Okay. [00:32:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Even if I give him a blow job and we don't have sex, I will still feel satisfied that I satisfied him. [00:32:16] Speaker A: Interesting. [00:32:17] Speaker B: And that will turn me on a lot. [00:32:19] Speaker A: I say interesting as if I don't understand. I love doing that to women as well. And I totally get it. It's very satisfying. I know a lot of these questions are sort of very reflective and introspective, but do you enjoy giving blowjobs? [00:32:32] Speaker B: Yes. [00:32:34] Speaker A: Like, a lot. A lot. [00:32:35] Speaker B: Yeah. I could just do it for hours. [00:32:37] Speaker A: Hours. Okay. Hours and hours. So that's an incredibly satisfying thing for you. It turns you on to do it. Makes you more excited and wet while you're doing it. Even if you're not touching yourself. [00:32:52] Speaker B: Yes. [00:32:53] Speaker A: Do you understand why or what that is? [00:32:55] Speaker B: Not really. [00:32:57] Speaker A: It just works. [00:32:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:59] Speaker A: Okay, that's cool. You're a very sexual, open person. I have a strong appetite for it. Let me ask you about quantity. Is there a such thing as too much sex? [00:33:11] Speaker B: No, not for me. [00:33:13] Speaker A: Do you tire guys out? [00:33:15] Speaker B: Yeah. That's been a problem in previous relationships, that he was just tired because it was normal. We had sex, like, maybe five times that day, and I just wanted more and more. And it did make me a bit annoyed because he didn't want to have sex with me anymore on that day. [00:33:36] Speaker A: But you've been monogamous in your relationships and you don't cheat on your boyfriends, but you get frustrated if they can't give you sort of enough. Have you ever then linked the thought that maybe I need to not have a boyfriend or have more boyfriends so I can feel more satisfied? [00:33:55] Speaker B: I have thought of that. I would never cheat on someone. If I'm in a relationship, then beautiful, I'm with that person. But now that I'm single, I feel the I am free to get it where you'd like. Yeah. [00:34:09] Speaker A: I'm guessing then that you haven't quantified this, but just for fun, how much sex would be too much sex? In other words, let's say you start having sex and an hour goes by and then 2 hours go by. No breaks, no water breaks or bathroom visits, no coming up for air. That's a long time. Let's say a third hour goes by just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Do you have a number in your mind where if it were 2 hours or 5 hours that that would be too much? [00:34:37] Speaker B: It never happened to me that I felt like it was enough. Even though it was satisfying, it was amazing. I get even more horny when it's finished because I start thinking about what we just did and I just want more. [00:34:53] Speaker A: I see. Okay. Is there such a thing as enough sex? [00:35:00] Speaker B: I can't imagine. I mean, it's happened before that I've maybe been having sex multiple times a day for a few weeks and maybe I'm a little bit sore. [00:35:15] Speaker A: Okay, so are you telling me that soreness. What? Does soreness stop you? [00:35:19] Speaker B: No. [00:35:20] Speaker A: Is the only thing stopping you from having more sex the amount that a man is capable of giving you? [00:35:26] Speaker B: Yes. [00:35:28] Speaker A: What about toys? Do you have any toys that you like to help? [00:35:31] Speaker B: It happened before that. Maybe the guy hasn't been able to go anymore, but he'll use a toy. [00:35:38] Speaker A: In me and then. Does that reach a point of enough? [00:35:42] Speaker B: No. [00:35:44] Speaker A: For a lot of people, sex revolves around the buildup to an orgasm. And then there's a lot of sensitivity on your clit and whatnot. You need to sometimes stop for a few moments and then it drops and then there's a build up, build up, build up and this big explosion for orgasm then. And it kind of has this up and down kind of feeling. I have a sense with what you're sharing with me that sex with you is like consistently just up? [00:36:09] Speaker B: Yes. [00:36:09] Speaker A: So does your orgasm, does you coming play into that at all or is it just sort of an additional nice little bonus? [00:36:15] Speaker B: An additional because that feeling of just going up. Amazing and overwhelming. [00:36:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Have you felt like you've ever reached like a limit or a plateau of pleasure? [00:36:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:29] Speaker A: Where it's just like, this is as good as it's going to feel? [00:36:32] Speaker B: Yes. Because as good as it is, it will just get so overwhelming and I might not be able to handle it. [00:36:39] Speaker A: Right. [00:36:39] Speaker B: Even though it's really good. I've always had a hard time explaining this to a guy if he's like playing with my clip. It's really satisfying. But I have this urge to maybe push his hand off at some point because it's too much. Even though I want him to continue. [00:36:55] Speaker A: My body is like interesting. Physically pushing him off, but you want him to continue. Is that confusing for guys? [00:37:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:03] Speaker A: Do they just have to figure it out or you let them know? [00:37:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll let them know. [00:37:07] Speaker A: Keep touching me even though my body's telling you not to? [00:37:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:37:11] Speaker A: That's an interesting one. Do you feel like your orgasms are super intense or they're just. Are they like these outrageous. Can't even see straight. Mind bending? [00:37:19] Speaker B: I feel like the whole time. I feel like that sometimes. Yeah. [00:37:26] Speaker A: Sex for you is like almost Immediately a really intense experience. [00:37:33] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's happened before that even like my eyes have watered. [00:37:38] Speaker A: Is being adventurous important to you sexually or does the variety of men and experiences satisfy that enough? In other words, is it enough to do a handful of positions and different guys from different countries? Or do you also need or want or curious about bondage? Shabari, anal being tied up. I don't know. Voyeurism, menagetois. Menagea cats, that sort of thing. [00:38:04] Speaker B: I do like trying new things, even though I'm trying with different guys, different countries, like you said, I still. With these guys, I want to try new things that I haven't done or they haven't done. [00:38:18] Speaker A: Have you ever introduced a guy to something that he hasn't done before? [00:38:22] Speaker B: Yes. [00:38:23] Speaker A: Like what? [00:38:25] Speaker B: Bondage. [00:38:26] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. You tied him up yourself? [00:38:29] Speaker B: I tied him up and I gave him a blow job and then he did that to me as well. [00:38:36] Speaker A: A mutual exchange. Do you associate any kind of power when you giving a blowjob, do you feel. Yeah, powerful? [00:38:45] Speaker B: Sometimes the opposite, actually. [00:38:47] Speaker A: Okay, the opposite. So when you're down on someone, do you like for him to be aggressive with you there? [00:38:53] Speaker B: Yes, I like it if you like, push my head more or he pulls my hair or even if he slaps. [00:39:00] Speaker A: Me a bit or pushes it further down. [00:39:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:03] Speaker A: In that kind of a situation, when you're so vulnerable and probably clearly there, you're not feeling in power. You like the feeling of powerlessness. [00:39:12] Speaker B: Yes. [00:39:13] Speaker A: Of, again, being taken in, a man asserting his will and dominance onto you. [00:39:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:18] Speaker A: All right, good. So along those lines, when, if ever, did you realize that you were comfortable with swallowing and all that goes along with that? [00:39:27] Speaker B: When I went to university, I was 18 then, and I started sleeping with more guys, I had that mindset that it's a bad thing to sleep with different guys often, or swallowing or doing. [00:39:43] Speaker A: New things or anything that wasn't considered, like, kind of normal sex. [00:39:48] Speaker B: Yes, exactly that. Normal sex that I actually don't know what normal sex is. Yeah, but that's how my mindset was. But then the more I tried things and the more people I met and I became more open minded, and I just realized how much I love sex. And that is not a bad thing. [00:40:11] Speaker A: That's right. [00:40:11] Speaker B: I grew up in a small town in Greece where even having a boyfriend is considered slutty if you're not married or if you don't have the intentions of getting married or having children. So I always knew I wasn't meant. [00:40:25] Speaker A: To be like that. [00:40:26] Speaker B: Yes. [00:40:27] Speaker A: How did you know? When you're raised like that, how did you like. You seem so in alignment with sex, being good and positive and you're comfortable with it. Was it a mentality that you broke out of? Do you feel like you had an awakening of sorts? You never really bought into it. [00:40:45] Speaker B: Yes. [00:40:46] Speaker A: Interesting. So you kind of instinctively always knew. This is what everybody's saying, but it's not really working for me. [00:40:53] Speaker B: Yes. [00:40:53] Speaker A: So you get to university, you're 18 years old. Was your first experience with that someone surprising you with it, and they didn't tell you that was going to happen? [00:41:01] Speaker B: It just happened. And I did feel a bit grossed out. [00:41:07] Speaker A: Sure. [00:41:07] Speaker B: For some reason. [00:41:08] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. [00:41:09] Speaker B: The first few times, maybe. But the more I have sex, the more new things I try. I just got comfortable with all of these things and actually enjoy them. [00:41:22] Speaker A: What do you think made the shift? I have thoughts on it, but I don't want to taint. [00:41:26] Speaker B: It's part of my traveling, because when I travel and I go to a new place, I feel like I can be whoever I want. I'm confident because I don't know anyone. [00:41:36] Speaker A: Totally. Also, what do you think made the shift from being grossed out by something to being turned on by it? [00:41:44] Speaker B: I'm trying to remember when I have a thought. Okay. [00:41:48] Speaker A: I think that the more aroused that you get and the more excited that you are and the more open that you are, the more you are receptive to almost anything. [00:41:58] Speaker B: Yes. [00:41:59] Speaker A: Do you agree with that? [00:42:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I do agree. [00:42:01] Speaker A: Yeah. What's incredible to me about arousal is that for many people and many things, what once was gross or unappealing or totally unacceptable becomes exciting, hot, or a turn on. And what's kind of cool is it tends to lock in that way, so it's not just in that moment, but if you're that turned on enough, you can completely change your belief and your thoughts about what you knew to be true for yourself into something completely different. And we can verify that and see it live right now. So you were saying it was completely unappealing to you and grossed you out at first, and now. Is it a turn on for you? [00:42:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:40] Speaker A: Is it a turn on for you? Yes, of course. Do you like to watch? [00:42:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:46] Speaker A: Yourself or other people or both? [00:42:48] Speaker B: Both. [00:42:49] Speaker A: Do you think you'd be comfortable with, like, other people having sex in front of you in a room? [00:42:53] Speaker B: I've never tried it, but, yeah. [00:42:56] Speaker A: What about women? [00:42:57] Speaker B: What about women? [00:42:59] Speaker A: Do you like them? [00:43:00] Speaker B: Yes. [00:43:00] Speaker A: When did you know? [00:43:01] Speaker B: It was in Finland? Actually, I was in one of the girls that we lived in the same building with, or other travelers. She was a lesbian, and we went on a road trip for nine days, six girls. And I just couldn't stop thinking about her in that way. And I was kind of annoyed with myself. I was like, hey, what's going on, Marisa? Why? And we had to share a bed, and we kind of just every night chose someone to sleep in the bed with. And I always tried to stay in the bed with her, even though nothing happened. And I was trying to convince myself not to feel like that about her because I was really confused. [00:43:48] Speaker A: Did she notice any of this? She had to have. [00:43:50] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:43:51] Speaker A: She didn't make any type of, like. Was she very open? Was she out? [00:43:55] Speaker B: She was, but maybe she thought that she knew that I like guys. [00:44:00] Speaker A: Gosh. [00:44:01] Speaker B: So maybe she was confused that I. [00:44:03] Speaker A: Was another one of those situations where two people are in the same room and in the same bed and want to have sex with each other. [00:44:10] Speaker B: But I was also a bit scared because I hadn't had sex with a girl before. But then it happened again when I was in Scotland, I was working as a bartender in a gentleman's club, and there was this girl. She was a dancer, and her thing was being dominant. That was part of her image as a dancer. She had the leather black boots, and she even carried a whip with her sometimes, and I really liked her. And I knew that she liked both girls and men. She let everyone know that. And. [00:44:48] Speaker A: Did something happen? [00:44:50] Speaker B: Yes. [00:44:51] Speaker A: Obviously she initiated it. [00:44:53] Speaker B: Yes. [00:44:54] Speaker A: Okay. [00:44:55] Speaker B: She was really open with sex, and she would let everyone know if she was horny. She would just say it to her. [00:45:02] Speaker A: Coworkers and whoever volunteered, she just, like, take them, or. How did she make her move then? Should she just make an announcement to you? And did you raise your hand and be like, I'll do it? [00:45:13] Speaker B: When I first started working there, I was quite shy, and that was one of the reasons I wasn't a dancer and I was just a bartender because my manager did want me to maybe start dancing and stripping, but I was quite shy. [00:45:29] Speaker A: Side note, what made you start working in a place like that? Did you want to? Did someone introduce it to you? What was the appeal? [00:45:36] Speaker B: It was exciting. It was something new. And I love bartending, but I thought it was really cool for it to be in a gentleman's club and watch other girls dance on the pole and meet different people. And I did feel confident there generally, and I felt like I could be whoever I wanted. I even had a different name there because even though I was just a bartender, I had my own stage name. Because sometimes guys tried to find you. Yeah. [00:46:10] Speaker A: Okay. That's a whole other subject. But back to your lady. Did she make an announcement, or how did it wind up that you guys. Was she her first? [00:46:19] Speaker B: Yes. [00:46:19] Speaker A: Wow. It was a great story. How'd that happen? [00:46:22] Speaker B: So one of her friends, her male friends, came to visit her, and she took him upstairs to give him a private dance. And she told me to go upstairs as well to watch her just giving him a dance. And then she kind of just pulled me and started kissing me. I've kissed girls before, but not in that way. And then she said, fingering me all. [00:46:45] Speaker A: In front of him. [00:46:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:46] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Wow. Was that even allowed? [00:46:49] Speaker B: No, it wasn't allowed, but because we were working there, because it wasn't like I was a customer. She was a customer. We were both working there, and I know it's probably still not allowed. We got Away with it. [00:47:03] Speaker A: Wow. This was in Europe? [00:47:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:05] Speaker A: Okay. Somewhere in Europe was. The guy was probably amazed. [00:47:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:47:11] Speaker A: Is it someone that she had had sex with before or just a friend of hers? [00:47:14] Speaker B: I actually don't know if she had sex with him before, maybe. [00:47:17] Speaker A: Yeah. So did she wind up going down on you in the club? [00:47:21] Speaker B: Yes. [00:47:21] Speaker A: Wow. You had the whole experience with someone watching. [00:47:25] Speaker B: Yes. [00:47:26] Speaker A: You must have found that incredibly exciting. [00:47:28] Speaker B: Yes. [00:47:29] Speaker A: How did it conclude? [00:47:31] Speaker B: He left and she just continued. [00:47:35] Speaker A: Wow. [00:47:36] Speaker B: Doing things to me. [00:47:37] Speaker A: And did you say, look, you're going to need to be here for the next 6 hours because this is not enough. [00:47:41] Speaker B: See, it wasn't the same with as much as I liked it. Maybe it's also because I was still a bit. Because it was my first time, I was a bit nervous. [00:47:51] Speaker A: How old were you? [00:47:53] Speaker B: 19. [00:47:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:54] Speaker B: I was a bit nervous because it was my first time with a girl and I just didn't feel confident the way I do when I have sex with guys. [00:48:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Did you do it again after that or was it. [00:48:04] Speaker B: No, that was the only time. First time. [00:48:06] Speaker A: Gosh. [00:48:07] Speaker B: I know. It's rare for me to find a girl that I like that way. [00:48:13] Speaker A: What does she have to be like? Not as feminine, energetically or the way she looks. [00:48:18] Speaker B: Balls. [00:48:19] Speaker A: A little butch. You know what that means? A little more manly. Now, was this your only experience with a woman? [00:48:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:27] Speaker A: Would you say that she opened you up to the idea or would you say that you had it, this curiosity? [00:48:32] Speaker B: Had it, yeah. But she confirmed. [00:48:36] Speaker A: Confirmed it. And so now you feel like it's kind of official for the next time you have an experience? [00:48:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:42] Speaker A: Are you curious about any types of group sex? [00:48:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:45] Speaker A: Is there like a limit there for the number of people who would be involved? You're like, okay, three is plenty, or five is enough or the more the merrier. [00:48:52] Speaker B: It just depends who they are. I've had this fantasy of having sex with four guys. [00:48:59] Speaker A: Wow. What do you do with all that? [00:49:01] Speaker B: Exactly. I haven't really thought of that. Or like even. Maybe with even more guys and some. [00:49:07] Speaker A: Of them just watching and take turns. [00:49:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:10] Speaker A: And they're having their way with you? [00:49:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:12] Speaker A: Do you have any control in that fantasy? [00:49:15] Speaker B: No. [00:49:16] Speaker A: I want to be careful to say it here, but what's the right term to describe what's going on and what you're feeling? I don't want to put any words in your mouth, but is it a feeling of being taken or used that you find somehow exciting because you're in control of the fantasy? [00:49:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:32] Speaker A: Okay, so what is it about that idea that turns you on? [00:49:36] Speaker B: Just being dominated and being used, but not only from one guy, but by many of them. [00:49:43] Speaker A: By many. How would a fantasy like that come to an end? [00:49:48] Speaker B: I don't know. I didn't really think of that. I just imagined it never ending. [00:49:55] Speaker A: Of course it never ends. All right, since we're getting into such interesting and profound territory, let me just ask you for all to hear online. Do you fully consent to this podcast and to the sharing of it all around the universe? [00:50:08] Speaker B: Yes. [00:50:09] Speaker A: Are you happy to be doing it? [00:50:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:50:10] Speaker A: Okay, good. Were you manipulated or encouraged to do anything that you didn't want to do? [00:50:15] Speaker B: No. [00:50:16] Speaker A: Okay, awesome. So jumping right back in. You know what I want to ask, because I would assume it's on listeners minds too, is have you ever gotten hurt from someone taking things too far and not honoring your boundary, such as, I don't know, choking you too much or slapping you too hard or hurting you in a way that wasn't pleasurable? [00:50:35] Speaker B: It's happened that he slapped me so hard that I started bleeding. It was with a whip. [00:50:44] Speaker A: Jesus, Marissa, really? On your. No, no, on your ass? [00:50:50] Speaker B: Yes. [00:50:51] Speaker A: That's really, really hard. [00:50:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:53] Speaker A: Are you okay? [00:50:54] Speaker B: Yeah. It was quite painful. Like, more than I wanted it to be. [00:51:01] Speaker A: But what about your feelings about it? Did you feel like he did something wrong to you or did you feel violated at all? [00:51:07] Speaker B: No. I know that he didn't do it on purpose. I think he saw that I was enjoying the pain, that maybe he just thought to try a little harder, but it was too hard. [00:51:20] Speaker A: Yeah. It's crazy to hear something like that because we're dealing with a very taboo territory. On the one hand, you want this, you welcome this sort of play. But then if you're involved in something that is brutal or intense or painful or something that you want to have done to you, but then it goes too far, it's just a really fine line. How did you guys handle that? Did he stop and say, my God, I'm so sorry? [00:51:46] Speaker B: He asked me if I was okay, but we just continued having sex. [00:51:53] Speaker A: Were you okay? [00:51:54] Speaker B: I was, yeah. [00:51:55] Speaker A: Did you want to stop or did you want him to stop having sex with you? [00:51:58] Speaker B: No, but after, when we were done, the pain came and I kind of. [00:52:04] Speaker A: Looked and I was like, oh, that's really intense. So do you ever set boundaries with any partners? Like, ideally before something like that happens, but something clear, like, listen, I don't want to have something like that ever happen again. [00:52:18] Speaker B: So I've had to set boundaries when it comes to anal because I've never tried anal and I want to try it one day, but for now, I'm okay with not. So it's happened loads of times that a guy's tried to have anal. I've said no, I've pushed his hand off, but he's continued. And he has kind of pressured me and maybe even made me feel bad. Be like, oh, but why not? And made me feel uncomfortable. And that does turn me off sometimes when he's trying too hard. Having anal does turn me on, the idea, the thought of it. But when it comes to it, I don't want to actually doing it. Yeah. So sometimes if I've had sex with someone he's tried, he's kind of pushed me. The next time we'll have sex, maybe I'll say to him from before, just so you know, I don't want to have anal. We can do other things, but please don't try to. [00:53:17] Speaker A: Good for you. Okay, so that's boundary setting. Yeah. That's awesome. I imagine that when you're a woman who has to set boundaries, it could be really challenging, especially when you don't know quite when to lay them out or when the right time is for that, to not ruin a moment, but also to make sure you stay safe. I often hear women say they don't want to say to a guy right away, look, we're not going to be doing this. We're not going to be doing this. Don't bother trying that because you don't want to maybe ruin the experience, but you also have to assert it. And I feel like It's a tough line into dance of what you're going to say to someone before you've ever had sex with them during. But I think it needs to get done and it needs to be expressed so people know where your limits are. So the idea of anal turns you on. But what is it that stops you? Is it the fear of pain? [00:53:59] Speaker B: Yes. And although I like pain when it comes to sex, that's a different kind of pain. [00:54:07] Speaker A: Yeah. You seem to be so comfortable with all of this. Is there anything sexual that you're not comfortable with outside of that, it's all open? [00:54:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:18] Speaker A: Do you have some regular girlfriends who you talk to girlfriends at home, or do you feel like they're totally different than you? [00:54:25] Speaker B: Yes, definitely. We can talk about everything else, but not sex, which is hard for me because sex is. I feel like it is a big part of my life and I do enjoy talking about it, especially if something new happened with a new person I want to share that with at least, like a friend. [00:54:47] Speaker A: So what do you wind up doing? Who do you tell? [00:54:49] Speaker B: I do have one friend that's a guy. He's my best friend. He's in Greece. We haven't seen each other in years, but we talk on Skype maybe once a week and he will tell me everything. I will tell him everything. Details. [00:55:03] Speaker A: That's sweet. That's fun to have a friend like that. Yeah, but no women who can tell. [00:55:08] Speaker B: Sometimes maybe some coworkers will maybe get into that talk. [00:55:12] Speaker A: Yeah, it's interesting. As open as we are in this society, it's still very like, just keep that to yourself behind closed doors. [00:55:19] Speaker B: Yes. Which is hard because I need to let it out sometimes. I need to stay. [00:55:23] Speaker A: Do you want a boyfriend anytime soon? Assuming that he can accommodate your travel schedule? [00:55:29] Speaker B: Yeah. So ideally, I would like person that has a similar lifestyle with me who travels basically full time and that is up for new adventures and doing crazy things and stepping out of her comfort zone, but also someone that maybe has some goals and we can talk about anything, like our goals, our future, not together. I mean, our future. Like what I want to do with my life and everything. And definitely someone that doesn't get jealous because especially with my Instagram or me doing photo shoots with different people, I have to collaborate with men as well. [00:56:13] Speaker A: Sure. [00:56:14] Speaker B: And it's happened before that a boyfriend's gone jealous, even though it's just been a professional environment. [00:56:21] Speaker A: What freedom would you like if you were in a committed, monogamous relationship? And what I mean is, where does the line start for you? Obviously, you don't want to cheat on your boyfriend so you wouldn't have sex. But does it stop with oral sex, flirting, eye contact, touching, dancing, drinking? [00:56:37] Speaker B: For me, I feel like it's okay to flirt, but without anything happening. [00:56:42] Speaker A: No kissing, nothing more touching or physical contact? [00:56:45] Speaker B: No. [00:56:48] Speaker A: You seem to have a lot of integrity intact around that. [00:56:51] Speaker B: Because when I was in Finland, I was in a relationship then, right. And I went out dancing and I danced with a few guys and I flirted with one of them, but I knew that nothing would happen and I let the guy know. So maybe when he did try to maybe touch me or kiss me, I just said, oh, by the way, I have a boyfriend. [00:57:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so you'd basically just want to be able to do some mild flirting and interacting with men because you have to in the world with what you. [00:57:23] Speaker B: Do, especially with traveling. I meet some guys that, yeah, we would like to go hiking together. [00:57:30] Speaker A: Do you prefer monogamy over single and dating or vice versa? I prefer to be single because of freedom and choice. [00:57:41] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:57:42] Speaker A: Have you ever been in a position where you are with someone and other attractive women are throwing themselves at him or trying to spend time with him? Would that kind of affection from other women towards him bother you? [00:57:55] Speaker B: I kind of like it when other girls will start flirting with him. [00:57:59] Speaker A: Okay. [00:58:00] Speaker B: But then again, my ex did cheat on me and left me for another girl. So that did hurt me, I didn't feel jealous as such, but I just felt like I was stupid for not seeing it. [00:58:15] Speaker A: Do you think it was obvious? [00:58:17] Speaker B: Now that I know, I think back, yeah. [00:58:20] Speaker A: Well, when you trust someone and you love someonE, it's hard to. It's totally hard. [00:58:23] Speaker B: But that was the only time I did feel a bit jealous, a bit hurt. That was when I was in Finland. And when I came back from Finland, I went to the house, our house, and all his furniture were gone. And I knew that he moved in with that other girl. So I felt lonely for the first time. Yeah. [00:58:42] Speaker A: Horrible. All right, let's see. Do you want to share your story at all? Are you feeling like it's appropriate, or do you want to leave it totally off? [00:58:50] Speaker B: I can share. I do feel like it's important. I mean, it's part of who I am, I guess it's connect to my traveling and why I'm okay. [00:59:01] Speaker A: When I hear from someone that they are so open, that they enjoy sex so much, that they're so free, that they have so much fun with it. I think it might make some people think that a person like that has never had anything traumatic happen to them because they're so open and free. Whereas typically, you see people who experience trauma or severe trauma will often shut down or stray away from the very thing that caused that trauma. Though not always. But it is incredible to see someone as open and free and expressive and comfortable around sex as you are. Can you tell us about some of the trauma you've experienced in your life? [00:59:42] Speaker B: Yes. As much as I love sex, my first time having sex wasn't a good experience. When I was 14, I got raped by someone from my school. And it just continued for almost every day for three years until I was 17. And it wasn't just getting raped. It was also just physically being abused. He really hurt me by punching me and even broke my front tooth a few times. [01:00:16] Speaker A: Jesus Christ. [01:00:17] Speaker B: He burnt me like he was burning my body with cigarettes on me. Yeah, he was a bad person. [01:00:27] Speaker A: Someone really sick and disturbed. A monster. [01:00:30] Speaker B: Yeah. I just never managed to do anything about it. And when I finally kind of broke free, I told the police, and they kind of just blamed it on me. [01:00:43] Speaker A: Yeah. It's just so sick. [01:00:44] Speaker B: But because of that, I've learned how to really appreciate life and being alive. And I try not to complain about the little things because I know that worse things can happen to people. [01:01:01] Speaker A: Well, I think it's hard to imagine something worse than that. When you shared this with me for the first time, it made me sick to my stomach. I felt shock. I felt horrible for you that it seemed like nothing could be done about it. I felt resentment towards anyone who didn't listen to you. What I experienced was a lot of pain in me, that I couldn't do anything about this to help you or vindicate you or to make things right. But I also couldn't help but be absolutely blown away by what a positive and happy person that you are. Is it okay to ask you a little bit more about this period of your life? [01:01:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:39] Speaker A: Okay. How did this ever come to be? How did it start or begin? [01:01:44] Speaker B: So it started as a relationship. I mean, I was really young, and I was definitely not ready to have sex. But he was my first boyfriend. [01:01:56] Speaker A: Boyfriend. [01:01:57] Speaker B: And we were just, like, for me, just kissing with him was, like, the exciting part, because I knew I wasn't ready to have sex. I thought maybe if we were still together in a few years, but being 14, I was definitely not ready. [01:02:10] Speaker A: Of course. [01:02:11] Speaker B: And, yeah, just one time he tried and I said no to him, and he was just trying to put his hand there, touch me, and I just didn't feel comfortable. So I was trying to push him off. And then it just happened. And I was so shocked, and I felt disgusted, and I felt embarrassed as well to even tell anyone. [01:02:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Often situations like this feel like as you're going through it, there's no right answer, because you feel like if you told someone, they might resent you or not believe you, or even worse, treat you poorly as a result of it. So I know it can be extremely difficult to know what to do. And obviously, as barely a teenager, how can you possibly know how to keep yourself safe? Are you comfortable talking about this? Okay. [01:03:04] Speaker B: Yeah. I feel more comfortable talking about it now than maybe two years ago when it first ended. [01:03:10] Speaker A: One of the many disturbing things to hear from you is to see that you lived something so horrific and nothing can be done. And nothing was done. I mean, does that infuriate you or does it. [01:03:21] Speaker B: Not anymore. But it did make me angry when I maybe a few months after I had ended it, I was so angry, and I wanted to kill him. It was the first. That feeling of wanting to kill someone but actually kill him, that was the first and only time I felt like that about another human. And it made it worse that some people in my life blamed it on me instead. It was my own fault for lessening it happened or not telling anyone. [01:03:53] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. This is disgusting. So you're able to share it so easily, but I hope you know that all of that couldn't be farther from the truth. How can you help other people understand that? It's not a choice. [01:04:06] Speaker B: Yes, because a lot of people, even on movies, when they see a girl putting up with that, they'll be like, oh, she's so dumb. Why is she? If that was me, I would never let that happen. Right, but they managed to brainwash you. He made me believe that I deserved that. All the things he did. Because some of the words he used was like, dumb, stupid. [01:04:34] Speaker A: Do you think he made you believe it because he just kept repeating it? [01:04:38] Speaker B: Yeah. He repeated so many times that I thought it was normal. [01:04:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:44] Speaker B: So sad. It wasn't that bad. At some point I was just thinking. [01:04:48] Speaker A: I could see you feeling that, like, total brainwashing. I think you mentioned some experiences where you felt like you were close to dying. [01:04:55] Speaker B: Yeah. He used to put his hand on my mouth and my nose and it was one time that my ears started bleeding. What, from the pressure or my eyes started. I just passed out. And then when I woke up, he was just doing it again. Or other times he was filling the bathtub up with water and putting my head in. [01:05:20] Speaker A: It sounds like something out of the worst horror movie you can possibly imagine. [01:05:25] Speaker B: Because he knew I had told him that one of my worst fears is dying. Like being out of breath, either in a closed space or drowning or. Yeah. [01:05:35] Speaker A: Were you ever able to get help for yourself through any of this? [01:05:39] Speaker B: Yes. So that happened in Greece. So when I went back to Scotland for university, I thought I was fine because that was just a few months after it ended. And I was just glad it had ended. But then I started realizing that it was true. It actually happened to me. I started having nightmares. I still have nightmares till this day, sure, but I was having really, really bad flashbacks. Certain smells, certain people, certain touches. It's like I went back there. I could actually see and feel all the things that were happening. It was like a nightmare. But while I was awake walking around or at school or eating lunch, and I did decide to go, I just looked up if there's some kind of counseling in the area. And there was. And the first time I went there, there was just the one lady and she asked me and I told her and I just broke down. I just started crying because that was like one of the first times I actually told my story to someone. I said it out loud and I realized how real it was. [01:06:46] Speaker A: You lived this? Do you have a sense of how unfathomably horrible and terrible and monstrous this is? Do you have a sense that there's literally nothing worse that you could do to another person to violate them, ruin any kind of trust, break their spirit, or to almost destroy them emotionally, their heart, their soul, their feelings. What's going to happen typically with them in the future, by going through an experience like that, or do you experience the memory of it very differently? [01:07:22] Speaker B: I know it was bad, and I'm just thinking about how I was so strong to actually not die. [01:07:30] Speaker A: Yeah, unquestionably. [01:07:31] Speaker B: And how I accepted that pain. [01:07:35] Speaker A: Do you know that you didn't deserve any of this? Not for a second, not for a moment, not any part of it. [01:07:41] Speaker B: Now I do, but not then. Two years ago now I didn't. Or three years ago now. [01:07:46] Speaker A: So you didn't have a sense back then that he was psychotic or crazy or personal. [01:07:50] Speaker B: Keep trying to find excuses for him. I was. Keep thinking, okay, I was dumb, I did something wrong, and it convinced me that I was fat, that I was ugly, and I was super skinny then. This is the heaviest way. [01:08:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And obviously, no one can see she's extremely petite and extremely tiny. Yeah. How are you now? And what are your feelings about it today? How do you feel about yourself? [01:08:14] Speaker B: I feel really, really strong, and I don't have this anger in me anymore. I've accepted it's happened because so many people are like, oh, you'll get over it. No, I will never get over it. I will never forget. I'll never forget that feeling, all the thoughts I had while it was happening. But I can learn how to live with it, accept it, and really now live life. Because if I survive that, I feel like I can survive anything. And that's part of why I travel and I do all these things like skydiving and doing these really hard hikes that I think I'm going to pass out because I feel like I can do anything. [01:08:57] Speaker A: That's incredible. And I don't want to underestimate that. That you've found your own power and your own capability and that you feel that you can conquer anything in the world that's sort of like the fantasy or the dream resolution or what we all hope for when we see movies is that coming out of something terrible has somehow not made you better. Because I really don't believe there's ever a need for anyone to go through anything like that. But if anyone does at all have a choice of how to feel or think or respond or react going forward to something that has happened to them in the past, what you're describing just sounds absolutely incredible and inspiring with everything that you've gone through. When you're having sex with a new partner, you never feel triggered or have a flashback or anything like that. [01:09:48] Speaker B: It happened once that I got horrible flashback while I was having sex. And it wasn't rough sex, it was just. That was right at the start. It was like the first guy had had sex with right after him. [01:10:01] Speaker A: You just really give me the sense that you're so well calibrated. If I met you ten years after this happened and I knew you were still struggling from it, I would think to myself, that doesn't surprise me. It's horrible, but it's not surprising because this is so bad. But you seem to be genuinely not faking it and not repressing it. Like this really beautiful light who loves life, wants to experience everything. Do you agree? Do you feel like you've repressed anything? And it's never anything that you can let it go or just put aside, but somehow you seem to be living a very good life. [01:10:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I've kind of learned how to not think about it as much. And I'm trying not to connect it to my current life the way it is now. I do believe that because of that, it's who I am today. It's made me feel stronger, more confident, and also being more positive and not complaining about the little things. [01:11:01] Speaker A: How is it possible for you to not connect that horror with new experiences that you have with people? It seems. Can I ask you that? How is sex, and not even just sex, but rough sex or aggressive sex. You experience it as something that you love that's pleasurable for you, and it's exciting for you, and it doesn't trigger you, it doesn't activate you or make you feel horrible. On the contrary, you seem to feel amazing about it. Tell me a little bit about that. [01:11:29] Speaker B: It's because the sex I'm having now, like, rough sex and being dominated, is with people that I'm actually attracted to and I want to have sex with, and they're not bad people. Even if he hits me during sex, he's not a bad person. He doesn't actually want to hurt me. And it's just in sex, and he's fucking me because he's. Because we both want it. Where what happened was he wanted it. He hurt me a lot because he's a bad person. He had that hatred in his eyes that was a big part of. [01:12:11] Speaker A: And I'm sure he came from a horrible family of abuse. [01:12:14] Speaker B: Yeah, his dad was really bad. His mom and his older brother was horrible to his fiance. And his little brother witnessed him punch me once and choke me. [01:12:27] Speaker A: What did this little brother. How old was this kid? [01:12:30] Speaker B: Eight. And I loved him so much. I felt like his older sister. And I was always trying to convince him that nothing was going on because he always asked him, oh, why are you cRying? Or. After I finally stopped it and broke free, his mom came and found me at my school, and she tried to convince me to go back. And she was saying, oh, it's okay. [01:12:57] Speaker A: What? [01:12:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:59] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [01:13:00] Speaker B: I said to her, I even offered to help her get away from that family because she obviously was brainwashed. And I said to her that she can't just accept that he's going to beat her up and everything. Because she said, oh, yeah, my husband used to beat me up. It happened. It's just sometimes they get angry. [01:13:22] Speaker A: She was giving them excuses, justifying it. Do you have any words for anyone who has gone through this, or a message that you'd like to give to other women, if his mother was listening, that you'd like to say to her now? [01:13:35] Speaker B: Yeah. That they're not alone, even though maybe their family and friends are against them or don't understand and they're blaming them. There's someone out there that's gone through the same, or someone that can help and that they don't need to go through it, because I understand that they're scared, because I was scared. And that was one of the reasons I couldn't do anything about it at first. [01:14:01] Speaker A: What do you think is needed for a girl to overcome fear and speak or leave? [01:14:06] Speaker B: For me, it was knowing that if I do tell someone that I will be safe and that he won't come and find me after because I can't remember. It's a big percentage of, especially in domestic violence, that goes unreported. Yeah. And it's like 90% of the time, the person ends up killing the other girl after she has left, because it's like nothing's left for him anymore. She's escaped. She's told people there's, like, nothing left. Nothing's keeping him from not hurting her. Yeah. So that is really scary. Especially when the guy will tell her, if you leave me, I will kill you. And he means it. That was a big fear of mine. So when I did leave, it was because. Well, part of it was because I knew that I was turning 18 after the summer and that I would be going to Scotland. And I was just thinking, maybe I can just manage to survive a few more months with this monster and then I can leave. But then I couldn't because I thought I was going to die. So I just broke free earlier than I thought, which was scary. And I just stayed home the whole summer. I went to work and then home. I did not do anything else in the summer like all my other schoolmates. And then I went to Scotland and I finally felt safe because I knew he wouldn't go there. [01:15:31] Speaker A: This was the other thing I wanted to add here. What you're talking about is so extreme and so severe. You can't hide it. Like, you can't really hide it. It should be evident and obvious to anyone. What did teachers say or parents? [01:15:45] Speaker B: My parents were quite busy and I did always find excuses for things. If I had a bruise on my hand or something, they would ask me and it would be like, oh, I fell, or, oh, my friend was joking around. She maybe grabbed me too hard, or I would. [01:16:00] Speaker A: Were all of these excuses centered around protecting yourself so that you felt you wouldn't get hurt more? [01:16:06] Speaker B: Yes, because I was protecting him in order to protect myself. Because if he was protected and all knew what he was doing, then I would be fine. And sometimes when he hurt me and I got a bruise, he would blame it on me. He'd be, oh, my God, you just got a bruise because of this. Now people are going to see it. And he was like, even blaming that on me. [01:16:28] Speaker A: And that's insanity. There's no words for it. Even as I'm wanting to have this conversation with you, there's nothing I can say or anyone can say to make it okay or better to explain. Let me just try to keep going with you. You mentioned that you even told your teachers about this. [01:16:47] Speaker B: Yeah, and teachers did know, but they blamed me because they were saying, well, you're too young to have a boyfriend anyway, or, oh, you shouldn't be dating with that guy because, like, they would. [01:16:59] Speaker A: See you were physically harmed and hurt as barely a teenager and tell you somehow this is your fault. [01:17:05] Speaker B: Or some of them said, oh, I don't want to know. I don't want to hear, I don't want to know. Because they didn't want to have to deal with it. [01:17:12] Speaker A: So did you just feel like you gave up trying because everyone you turned to and you had no friends? You can tell. [01:17:16] Speaker B: Yeah. And then because it was happening for so long, I felt like, okay, well, now it's too late because I've let it happen for so long, now I am the stupid one because I didn't tell anyone from the start. So I felt embarrassed if I told anyone after. [01:17:34] Speaker A: Well, it's not stupidity. It's fear. And it's fear for your own life. It just takes a mild understanding of how human emotion works to understand that. That you don't have the resources to almost be able to even speak about what's going on because fear is gripping. It completely takes over you. What about the counselor who you were able to speak to? Do you feel like she or they helped you a lot? [01:17:56] Speaker B: She did. It was a group counseling, and I met some other amazing people, and one of them is actually really good friend of mine now, and we've helped each other. [01:18:07] Speaker A: Have you noticed that some of your other friends from that group, I don't know if you stay in touch with them, have different feelings around sex, where they're, like, really not trying to have any and really don't like men. [01:18:19] Speaker B: And also, I feel like some people that go through something like this might turn out to be doing the same things to other people. Same with, like, bullies. They get bullied at school, and maybe when they grow up, they become the bully. [01:18:32] Speaker A: Right. [01:18:33] Speaker B: But then there's people like me that now I would never hurt another human. I would never. [01:18:41] Speaker A: Same. Is there anything else that you'd like to add to this story? [01:18:46] Speaker B: I just wish I could tell every single person that's been through this or going through this right now that they can get away, they can be free and they can be safe and that they're not alone. Because I did talk about this a little bit. I kind of hinted on my Instagram, one, on one of my posts and through hashtags and things, a few girls have reached out to me and said to me that something similar happened to them. And we've talked about it online, and we support each other. So even if your closest friends or family aren't supporting you, there's someone out there that will. And sometimes you might have to move out or leave people behind. You might have to do something so drastic. [01:19:35] Speaker A: Leave family, leave friends, leave a city. [01:19:37] Speaker B: To leave a country and not go back to my own family. I still haven't been back to that town the past three years. I am going back this summer, though. I'm not scared anymore because I was definitely scared before. I just still don't know how I would react if I saw that person again walking around free, that his friends being able to look at me and know that what he did to me was thinkable. [01:20:03] Speaker A: And what about reporting it to any type of law enforcement or anybody? [01:20:09] Speaker B: I reported it maybe three times back then, just nothing. [01:20:13] Speaker A: I just can't believe that you can make this very clear, obvious case and have nothing. [01:20:19] Speaker B: I even got told by a police officer that they have more important things to deal with than a teenage girl crying. [01:20:28] Speaker A: Let's sit with that for a moment. Marissa, do you feel like you've been able to share everything that you want to share today? [01:20:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:20:38] Speaker A: I have a lot of respect, admiration and appreciation for you. And I think what you've done is almost unthinkable or unimaginable that you've come through all of this not just okay, but as a healthy girl who has a healthy life. You're not surviving. You're not in survival mode. You are living and living life to its fullest. And then not only that, that you can live with people, that you can interact with men, have sex with men, have incredible sex with people and be able to talk about it and share your experience and so cleanly articulate what you like and what excites you. It's just really, really beautiful. [01:21:14] Speaker B: Thank you. [01:21:15] Speaker A: I hope that as your life unfolds, that it keeps going that way for you. Let's see if we get to something maybe lighter before ending. Maybe you can share with us a few of your dreams and passions now about what you're great at, who you want to be, what you're working towards. [01:21:32] Speaker B: I have two big goals completely different from each other, but I'm sure I'm going to find a way for them to both work. One is obviously, travel the world and possibly finding a job online or having my own business that I would only need my laptop and WiFi because until now, I haven't decided where I want to live or settle down or if I ever want to do that, because there's so much to see. And I do find it hard to stay in one place for more than a few months without craving more new adventures. [01:22:08] Speaker A: What's the shortest you like to stay somewhere? [01:22:10] Speaker B: I would want at least, like two weeks. In mean, of course, it depends where. Like, when I went to Hawai, I could have stayed for months, and I am planning to do that. [01:22:22] Speaker A: I feel like a few days, you blink, you're arriving, you're looking at maps, you're trying to figure out where to eat and what to do. But two weeks just starts to give you, like, a nice taste of the place. So can you see yourself doing a month here and a month there and just going, going, going? [01:22:37] Speaker B: Because until now, I've done that. Well, I've lived in Greece, I've lived in Scotland. I've lived in Finland. I'm living in the US now for the past year, and I've been going to all these different states and towns and cities in the US, and it's just to really experience the real lifestyle and culture of that place, because so many people go to one place for, like, three days and be like, I want to live here, but they don't know how to. And that's when they're staying in a resort and they're not even leaving. [01:23:07] Speaker A: It's a fantasy. [01:23:08] Speaker B: Yes. Like living in a bubble. [01:23:10] Speaker A: Is the job for traveling and traveling the world? Are those the two things, or is that one part? [01:23:14] Speaker B: That's one thing. The other thing would be, so my dad has a restaurant in Greece, and I worked there since I was seven years old. [01:23:27] Speaker A: Greek food, presumably? [01:23:28] Speaker B: Yes. And it's 119 years old. It's a family owned restaurant. It was the first restaurant on the island. [01:23:36] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. [01:23:38] Speaker B: People know it's for the food because it was like my grand's recipe. And she's 94 and she still cooks sometimes. And it's not like a tourist trap or something. It's a real Greek place. And yes, it is a tourist du car destination. [01:23:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:58] Speaker B: But it has so much history and everything. So I would love to. And I've always wanted to have my own restaurant, and I want that restaurant. I want to take over and improve it, because as much as my dad is doing a good job, he doesn't understand that nowadays it's more about the experience and not only the quality of the food, but their whole experience. [01:24:27] Speaker A: Service, the atmosphere, the waiter and waiter. [01:24:31] Speaker B: And also marketing and social media as well, and everything. And having your own business gives you so much. You can do whatever you want with it. [01:24:40] Speaker A: A lot of freedom. [01:24:41] Speaker B: Yeah. And there's so many things that I would. And from all these other jobs that I've had, even I worked in Burger King when I was a student. I was a bartender out in Europe. Yeah. [01:24:52] Speaker A: Wow. [01:24:52] Speaker B: And all these little jobs, they've taught me things that I can now use all my jobs. Maybe it wasn't the good things, like, it was had, like, bad management. But then I've learned what not to do as a manager at my business. And even from bartending, I got drink ideas that I can use. So that's one of the reasons I'm traveling, visiting other restaurants and bars or even working in them. I'm just collecting all this information and learning constantly. And then I can use all of that for when I have my own restaurant. [01:25:28] Speaker A: Yeah. I love I was just going to say that all these little experiences have helped you solidify and acquire the knowledge to do so. [01:25:34] Speaker B: That's great. A lot of students, at least from my university, they are like, oh, well, that job is not in my, like, what I'm studying has nothing to do with what I'm studying. I don't want to do that. But any job will give you something. [01:25:51] Speaker A: That's right. That is an amazing perspective to have. [01:25:54] Speaker B: Even, like I said, burger King, I wasn't interested in being on drive through. But I learned things from the managers. I learned how to talk more to guests, how to deal with stress and fast paced. All these things that people just don't think about. [01:26:12] Speaker A: Yeah, you've given a lot of thought. What were you going to university for? [01:26:16] Speaker B: International Tourism Management. [01:26:18] Speaker A: Oh, wow. So you have a business sense. [01:26:21] Speaker B: Yeah. I really love what I study because I get the best of both worlds. I have like tourism and travel and things, but I also get the business side of it, like marketing and personal branding, social media management. [01:26:33] Speaker A: Right. If someone wants to get in touch with you or communicate with you in some way, what's the best method? Would you say? It's Instagram. [01:26:41] Speaker B: Instagram? Yes. You'd probably have to write that in the show notes because my last name is. [01:26:47] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:26:48] Speaker B: But it's just Marisa Voyage. And I recently just launched my new website as well. [01:26:55] Speaker A: Great. [01:26:55] Speaker B: Which has my photos and my blog as well, which I write more about my travels there. [01:27:03] Speaker A: Oh, okay. I used to do that too. What's your website about? [01:27:06] Speaker B: It has two parts. [01:27:07] Speaker A: It's the blog and my portfolio, my. [01:27:10] Speaker B: Photography and some model and photos. [01:27:14] Speaker A: Beautiful. [01:27:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:27:15] Speaker A: Do you want to share that as well? [01:27:17] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just Marisavoyetzi.com. [01:27:21] Speaker A: So Marisa is traditional spelling Marisavogiapzi. And for those who don't know, Z. [01:27:32] Speaker B: Is also Z. Oh, yeah, I forget that here. As I say, Z. [01:27:38] Speaker A: Okay. That was an extremely powerful, special interview. Thank you for coming and for sharing this and for being so effortlessly open. You felt very natural and well expressed and authentic. [01:27:51] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you for having me and letting me share my story. [01:27:55] Speaker A: Yeah, you're welcome. And friends, if you haven't checked out Marissa's website, please do so. It's actually an incredible tour de force of her life. And everything is so well done because she's artistic and edits her own videos and takes her photos. It's a feast for the eyes. She designs her own website. She does her own photography. She's done modeling. I don't know if there's anything that she doesn't do. Is there any more you'd like to say about your entire product line of services that you offer? [01:28:22] Speaker B: You can also watch me on YouTube. I make travel videos on YouTube. [01:28:27] Speaker A: Like incredibly edited travel videos. Really, really well done ones. What's your YouTube? [01:28:31] Speaker B: It's the same. Marisa Viet, what inspires you to create all this stuff? I love photos, but sometimes I want to capture more than just photos. I want to either write about my experience with more detail or film to really see the emotions of people and more of that place than just one still photo. [01:28:57] Speaker A: All right, perfect. I think that's a wrap. So thank you again so much for coming. To everyone who's listening. I really, really hope that you got a lot out of hearing Marissa's experience. If someone shared this episode with you, you can find the Close podcast. Anywhere podcasts can be found, whether it's YouTube, Spotify, Stitcher, iTunes, Google Play, and so forth. And please remember, too, if you get value out of these podcasts to donate to our Patreon, which is slash closeness. Thank you for listening and have a great day.