Part 2: Who should pay for the first date and beyond?

Speaker 0 00:00 Welcome back to part two of who should pay on the first date and beyond. This is the closest podcast. I'm your host tare. If you haven't listened to part one, I would strongly recommend listening to it first as it lays a foundation, Ford heartless points that we're about to lay out. In fact, approximately 25 more of them. For me, this has been one of the most complex episodes to create for one because the arguments on both sides are so incredibly strong, but also because both sides are so passionate about what they think money and sex are two of the most inflammatory subjects on the planet. So I hope this podcast helps you to think a little bit differently about money and also helps you to understand your partner's thoughts and feelings and maybe just maybe help you shift into a new paradigm if you think it serves you in order to create an episode like this, I did have to use a lot of generalizations, so please keep that in mind when you're listening. Speaker 0 00:49 In our last episode, we began by posing the question, who should pay if two women are dating with this episode? I'd like to start things off by examining two extremes. One being who we think should pay when a woman is significantly more wealthy or financially independent in comparison with her male partner. How can he feel valued, contribute, give? What role does he play in the relationship as a man, if she is either independently wealthy or taking care of everything? Well, we can start to look at how a man's value plays out in life. Most of the time, stereotypically it seems to be finances, resources, paying, or even the ability to have a certain lifestyle. Now, I certainly am by no means reducing a man's worth down to paying and being resourceful, but much like women are known for their beauty. Of course, we know men are often known for our ability or desire to or expectation to provide, and so that was something I really wanted to reflect on in situations where I find myself providing or paying for dates. Speaker 0 01:56 How do I feel though? I find myself paying most of the time. Do I feel the qualities that men so often want to feel such as being valued or needed by paying for a woman's food, and I came to the conclusion that I don't, I don't actually feel needed or valued for that matter, but I do feel that there is something to taking care of someone. One of the things that makes me feel valued is when I have the opportunity to say cook for a woman and then not just hearing a simple thank you and then it's forgotten about, but seeing that look on her face when she's over the moon, that emotional response to how it tastes and make no mistake. The quickest way to a woman's heart is after all through her mouth. So when I'm taking my time or creating something in the kitchen with her or she's helping me, or maybe we're dancing with each other while we're cooking, or it can also be fun if she doesn't have a lot of cooking experience to surprise her with her own abilities. Speaker 0 02:51 These are the kind of moments that really to me touch me. It puts a smile on both of our faces and makes for a perfect evening. I'm sure at some point I'll do an entire episode on, uh, intimacy in the kitchen. But aside from feeling valued and needed, I think when a man is at his best, he also feels directional. Like he can make choices and decisions easily. Like he can express leadership and take charge in a healthy way of different situations. And I also believe that women tend to find these traits attractive. In fact, I think in terms of some qualities outside the bedroom, those characteristics will tend to make a woman feel very sexually responsive for further details. See my published works or a podcast entitled, how to turn a woman on with decisiveness. Interestingly, if you take these qualities away, the ability to make choices and make decisions to handle things, to provide value, to be needed, to step up, to take leadership, this will tend to make men considerably more passive. Speaker 0 03:50 And as it turns out, women tend to not be sexually attracted to passive men. Of course, we're making broad generalizations here. Of course you may find yourself to be a passive man who's very happy and very well loved by perhaps a more professional or assertive or dominant, or if you want to call it masculine woman and things can be working out just fine, but it is worth entertaining the following fantasy in your mind. Just for fun. If you're a woman, imagine that you are in a relationship with someone where you make significantly more money than your man does. And so now imagine you're going out to nice dinners, of course, regularly, all sorts of events, performances, tickets, sporting events. We're going to explore all of this and even more depth later. But how often ladies could you handle paying for a man morning, noon, and night for every little detail, everything that needs to be paid for. Speaker 0 04:45 Would that take away from your ability to relax? Would it take away from your ability to feel like a woman? Would you look down on your man or find him less sexually attractive because you're paying all the time, even though it's not a big deal for you. And if you do find that you might feel any kind of negative emotion, does it give you any more of a sense of empathy towards men who wind up paying for everything? Now, if you're a man listening, how often would you feel comfortable allowing your women to pay for tickets, trips, dinners, all of these things? It takes so much resources that typically you would do as a man. How would you feel and how long would it last? Would you feel insecure? Would you feel like you're not being a man or stepping up, I don't use vocabulary like this, but would you feel like a loser? Speaker 0 05:35 Do you feel like she would be viewing you that way? It really gives you a new perspective when you think about things from these positions because we realize how strongly we would feel in one position or the other and I hope it helps you realize that just because things have always been this way or people are used to them being this way or it's what you expect them to be, that it doesn't mean they're right or that they're right for you. It's also worth looking at the other side of the spectrum. When a man makes all the money, a woman who is completely dependent on a man for resources, well she might feel trapped or controlled or that she has to ask permission for everything, any little thing that she might want and that creates its own set of issues. Whoever has all of the resources could very easily use that as a position of power or hold it over the other person's head or as a way to keep them trapped in the relationship or to get them to do what they want them to do. Speaker 0 06:27 And a lot of the issues that STEM from all of this, a lot of where that comes from is ego. Ego is a word we've all heard countless times and like so many other subjects on this podcast, it is a loaded word. We all think it's got a different definition and we all think we understand what it means. How do you know if you're in your ego? I believe that most people think that they are in their ego because they're either saying something selfish or putting themselves first, and for many of us, ego means that we're acting from a place of possessiveness or arrogance or doing something to feed our own desires. Someone who is egotistical thinks only of themselves. Well, nowhere do. People enjoy harnessing the power of their ego more and leveraging all of its abilities than in the arena of dating. For women, it's incredibly easy to spot. Speaker 0 07:17 I want to feel like a princess. I want to feel spoiled. I deserve you better. Prove yourself to me. I'm better than you. I have something you want. I don't date men who don't dot dot, dot III me, me, me, for men on the other hand, which is very interesting, being in your ego when it comes to dating is actually pretty sneaky. It presents as generosity, kindness, kind, gestures being a good man, being chivalrous. That's what it appears to look like on the outside, but what no one ever manages to speak about is what the person is really getting out of doing such things. Why do men really leap, jump and run for the opportunity to buy things for women, do things for them, help them out in some way. Take a photograph if they're standing nearby, buy them a drink, get them into a club or event. Speaker 0 08:12 Take them out somewhere. Treat them to something. It put them on all the guests lists and you know how it goes. As much as we love to believe that people are purely generous from the kindness of their own hearts, anyone who's had a previous experience with big business, large companies, animal rights, customer service, any type of negative experience at all when it comes to human interaction, knows that people always have their own personal interests in mind and they're usually fueled by what? Money. Power and sex, and of course, yes. Exceptions constantly apply. I for one, of course, aspire to be a kind person and engage in kind gestures. I opened the door for people have helped people in occasions without intimacy expectations or without hoping something would happen as a result of it. Because yes, there is something in the human condition that enjoys being good. Speaker 0 09:04 That doesn't make me perfect, but I share it for another reason. If I'm doing a kind gesture for someone, man, woman or child, it's simply that and there is no expectation from it. It's just the feeling of being a good person. But when it comes to having sexual or romantic interest in someone, I don't pretend that it's just a kind gesture that I do it because I would do it for anyone. It's very clear that I'm doing it to express sexual interest and I think that's a very important distinction. So I think it's great to be good to be a good person who could Samaritan a wonderful human being, but to all people. And then for there to be a distinction when it comes to sexual intimacy or the desire to create some with someone else. The other day, my neighbor who I have never met before, I think maybe we've seen each other once in the entire, who knows how many months he's lived here. Speaker 0 09:55 While he saw that I was trying to move a Tempurpedic mattress out of a moving truck and he literally just offered his assistance to move the bed and heavy frame inside. I'm pretty sure he's married. I am 100% sure he wasn't expecting sex or intimacy from me and I don't think he expected any form of payment. I think he just offered to help and I thought that was super kind and generous. And I do think that straight man to straight man, it's a lot simpler to see when someone's just being kind and good when you mix it with male, female dynamics, if either person is remotely attracted to the other person or curious about them, everything changes. There's something there where it becomes about impressing or helping with the possible idea that something could come about it or happen. I've heard men talk about this countless times. Speaker 0 10:44 Women always want to know what are a man's real intentions, what does he really want? And I'm not sure that that's actually possible to decipher from an outside perspective because I think at the end of the day, a man wants something from you. Absolutely. If he's interested in you romantically, whether that's to have sex or to have sex and have a relationship or to have some form of intimacy or connection with you, but if you ask him flat out, I don't think the honesty is there. I think anyone can easily say, no, I'm just doing this to be nice and to be friendly. It looks like you needed to help. I want to believe that that's how I was raised. I want to believe that about myself, but I can also say if the person's very attractive to me, we can't help but to demonstrate more interest or want to do more. Speaker 0 11:32 I'm not suggesting that if you find a girl attractive, you have bad intentions or that all people are bad or that every single person is only selfishly oriented and they're not going to do anything unless they're motivated by getting something in return and yet at the same time that can be very often true. The fact of the matter is we all have a light side and a shadow side. None of us exempt from this including your gurus and this is the rub. This is the tricky part because it's almost impossible to decipher when someone is doing something out of the kindness of their own heart and when they're doing it from their ego, when they're doing it to demonstrate how much money they have, how great they look, how they can provide what they gained by distinguishing themselves from other men as they compete for your attention. Speaker 0 12:17 And certainly anytime resources are scarce, you better believe people are competing for your attention. For example, as a woman, you are one woman and if you have several suitors and if men are aware of the suitors or even in a bar restaurant and see these other students approaching you, men want to use whatever tools they have to demonstrate why they would be the better choice. If you're a man, you're really the only one who can answer this question for yourself and we've got dozens more later, but here's a great starting point. When you're paying for a woman buying things for her and treating her to things, is it because you want something from it? Is there any kind of exchange that you're hoping for? And quite probably of course there is. So it's really great to be honest with yourself and know what that expectation is and whether you want to temper it, change it or keep it as is, and also don't chastise yourself at the same time. Speaker 0 13:10 If someone's going out on a date with you, of course we all would hope that the person isn't just showing up, gracing you with her time and presence and not doing much more than sitting there. We've got expectations about it and so when it comes to expectations, and we spoke at length about this in the previous episode as well, it's particularly easy, especially for women to say, Oh, I have no expectations and you should have no expectations. I'm just here to see what happens. I don't even know what I want, but think about it for a moment. We have expectations every single moment of every single day that we can't not have. We expect the floor to be beneath our feet and that we don't fall down into an empty pit. We expect the sun to shine every morning. We expect gravity to work. We expect that we're likely going to go to the bathroom and go to sleep at night, and some of us even expect to have a really good day. Speaker 0 14:00 What then is different when you have an expectation about how a date goes versus how your day goes, or how a business meeting might go versus how a date goes. You can't really avoid it. So on some level, the expectations there, and often whether you're on the receiving or giving end of a date, you're expecting that the date is going to work out well. You want it to work at, why else would you be there? Unless you're a pessimist in which you have the expectation that it's not going to go so well for you, you may find it interesting to know that earlier on in life, I used to do social experiments with paying on the first date. Sometimes after going on first dates that didn't feel would be particularly productive. I would just allow the bill to sit on the table, not by having an opinion one way or another about who will pay, but just allowing it to be there. Speaker 0 14:46 But it's really incredible to watch how uncomfortable a woman will get or how she'll squirm the behavior she'll engage in while she's waiting for you and expecting you to pay that bill. She'll make faces. She'll get super quiet and uncomfortable. She'll look down, she'll make noises like um, while blinking her eyes rapidly, the not knowing what to do, the sitting there and making small talk and fake conversation while the bill continues to sit there looming over us. And I'm sure many millions of men across the world have felt this before too. This discomfort in the pit of both of their stomachs due to their females. Lack of comfort because there's a check sitting on the table and that really transfers over to this feeling of, well, what is this expectation? What is this obligation on men's part to fund a woman's dining experience? The thing that consistently gets me time after time is women like this who feel this discomfort and want the man to pay so badly. Speaker 0 15:43 They think it reflects so poorly on the man that he is in being a man or taking the lead or treating her to food that they never once consider how bad they look about having an expectation like that. Thinking that just because they exist, that they're somehow entitled to be purchased. All number of things including food and dinners. It's interesting when you say it sort of in a truthful way like that, right, versus being chivalrous. It sounds so romantic, being generous, being kind or saying something like, I only love a true gentleman. How does it sound to you if I say, Oh, I only date real women if she can't show me she's a real woman. I'm not interested. I don't spend time with the girls who aren't ladies or worse. I only date young women when you actually give it a different title, such as paying for her food or paying so that she can eat or buying her a meal. Speaker 0 16:38 It has a very different ring to it. I just want you to consider that as well. If you're a woman and you find yourself regularly using phrases like he should or it's just such a nice gesture or I love chivalry or I'm old fashioned or I'm a hopeless romantic, all implying that you have expectations that a man does things for you. You might ask yourself, what do you do in return? What is offered? Is it anything beyond showing up and being sweet? Is it anything other than being yourself that begets this type of treatment and no, everything is not a transaction. Life doesn't have to be tit for tat, but if you think that people are running around everyday just doing kind gestures with no expectation, it's all completely just from the heart. They want nothing back in return. Then you have to ask, why aren't other men being offered VIP access to clubs and bars? Speaker 0 17:31 Why aren't men being purchased drinks? Why aren't all the homeless men off the streets? Why haven't we solved all number of issues by giving other men money? Why are you spending it all on a lady that you're interested in? And that's because there's always something else at play. It often does feel like, and time again, women want to feel secure and men want to feel sex, and this is not to say that there aren't incredible philanthropists out there and anonymous donors and people who really do love to give. I know we have some really, really talented and wealthy and incredibly benevolent men and women on the planet. So obviously there's not a one size fits all answer to this, but as a general rule, both people often have expectations about how things are going to go and so something I constantly hear is that no man should ever have any single expectation of anything, of any kind on a first date and even future dates. Speaker 0 18:34 She wouldn't want him to think that he could have sex with her just because he's purchased her food. Good God, no, but if you don't buy her food, then for many women, you've also forfeited the ability to have sex with her. Hmm. I also think I may have just gotten to the bottom of countless women's online dating profiles that exclusively mentioned the words. I love tacos. So you shouldn't expect sex because you bought me dinner, that would be disgusting. But if you don't buy me dinner, then you forfeited the ability to connect with me in the future on an intimate sexual level. In fact, I would never have sex with anyone who is enabled to show me, prove to me, demonstrate for me, or buy for me that which I desire. So I'm really wanting you to hear how things really are without using the marshmallow fluff of mm. Speaker 0 19:24 I just like gentlemen and I just like a real man and I like a kind gesture and I'm just a lady and this is what gets done for me. I like men who know how to treat women. If a man can't take care of me on a first date, I'll never talk to him again. And all of that, especially since so many of those phrases are from a time when women weren't working, they were at home doing laundry, taking care of children, keeping the kitchen clean, making meals, not voting, not sharing equal rights and all of that. So I'm pretty sure that most women don't miss that. They miss a selective part of that. The part that's most self-serving, and that's the part where you're taken care of. So when you hear strong expressions like that, a gentleman, a real man, a provider, these words are so strong and so powerful and they have such a grasp on men and women and they really hit you in the gut of what someone should or should not do. Speaker 0 20:17 They're so judgmental. It's hard to distill them down or fight them or go against them. But what saying things like, I only like a real man or a true gentleman or a man who knows how to treat a lady does is it creates this ideal and expectation of what a man ought to or should do. Nevermind who the woman is, nevermind her qualities or characteristics. If she's likable, kind, nice, sweet, a good match or not just, here's what I expect of you. If you are a man, you will buy food. And so immediately this places ego. At the top of my mind, a man has to prove himself. A man has to demonstrate worthiness. A man hears, Oh, this is what a woman wants. And believes. So if I do this, then I get the girl or and more commonly than I get the goods. And so creating these elaborate, fluffy, romanticized phrases really can do some damage to your future relationship. Because I think it's a question worth asking yourself. What do I bring to the table if I feel like I've got to have every one of these needs met and this is what a man better have. What are you offering as a woman? Speaker 0 21:25 And do you really want to offer physical beauty as a commodity even though sex sells, even though every man loves beauty, don't you think there's so much more to that? And that takes us right into our next section, this idea that someone should be proving themselves to you. You're the King or queen, you stand in judgment. Everyone else falls at your feet and needs to make a case for why they should be with you. And then if you deem them to be worthy, well then you can go out or have sex. And let's start this one off just by simply reversing the roles because that's often so effective. So ladies, imagine that a man says to you, ladies, look, if you want to spend any time with me, the man, you're going to have to prove it. I don't just spend time with any woman. Speaker 0 22:12 So you're going to have to demonstrate to me that you're worthy of my time. Are you going to be sexing me every day? Are you going to be blowing me every day? Are you going to be making dinners all the time? And what about this laundry over here? A real woman knows her worth and value in the kitchen. A true woman always give sex to her man. Even though you don't know me and I don't know you. It's really important that because are perfect strangers. You prove yourself to me. If you want to be the mother of my children, if you want this virility, this masculinity, this hotness, then you have to demonstrate that you're worth it. Why? You ask about, I was born with a penis. Why else? Hopefully that sends the message home loud and clear, especially with all the things that we're dealing with in today's day and age. Speaker 0 23:00 And hopefully this sounds absolutely ridiculous and preposterous. This always places, whoever's speaking on a pedestal and puts them in a position of power, arrogance and superiority at the same time as I'm saying it, I do think it's healthy that we are selective in our mates. I do think it's healthy that we don't just let anyone have sex with us. Of course that's a whole different subject. But if you like someone, if you're curious about them, and you immediately start off with an expectation of worthiness and proving we're going down a very different route. And the fact of the matter is that in many women's minds, if you are not somehow proving yourself, then you've been completely disqualified. And that my friends is an interesting natural selection process. It really makes you see that women are the embodiment of mother nature. They are the embodiment of whether reproduction will happen or not or whether you should go back home and hide into your bed. Speaker 1 23:58 Yeah. Speaker 0 23:59 So a discussion like that can't help but to beg the question, if someone needs to spend money on you in order to spend time with you, or even in order to be intimate or have sex with you, what other profession shares a pay to play experience? What other profession shares this idea that if you're not spending, you're not getting, quite literally, if you don't pay, then you can't have sex. Not a lot of us want to be in that position. Not a lot of us feel comfortable talking about it. Nobody wants to feel used and nobody wants to feel like an escort or a prostitute. Speaker 1 24:45 Okay. Speaker 0 24:45 Prostitution has an incredibly simple definition. It's the act of engaging in sexual activity in exchange for payment. So of course, I want to say this carefully. Of course, I'm not suggesting that if you are a woman and you expect someone to pay for you on the first date that you're a prostitute, I am not drawing that conclusion. However, I am drawing the conclusion that if you find in your own life that men purchasing things for you, leads to sex with you or allows a man to eventually have sex with you, and if he wasn't investing in this way, then you would not be having sex with him. I absolutely believe there's a correlation between sexual intimacy and payment. What else would you call it? If you were exchanging you having sex with someone, maybe you are or are not attracted to, maybe you're enjoying and maybe you're not exchanging that for having your needs met financially. Speaker 0 25:40 And unfortunately, this is why there's a pervasive belief amongst a circles of men who have money or power or status in intimacy from women who don't even consider themselves to be prostitutes or escorts, that every woman has her price or it's just a matter of how much comes up, which is really sad. And so simply because someone doesn't put several $100 bills next to the nightstand after you've had sex with them, which would make you feel awful and horrible, does not mean that simply because it's not coming in the form of $500 dinners and champagne and gifts and food that the exchange is not somehow there. And so it's worth asking yourself if the money comes before having sex or during some other time or through some other way that's not necessarily direct like going shopping simply because someone isn't pulling out a wad of cash after you've had sex with them. Do you somehow qualify that as, okay. And do you not consider that prostitution? If a man takes you out to dinner and then you have sex, if a man takes you shopping and then you have sex, if a man does you financial favors and then you have sex, Speaker 0 26:51 what does that mean and how do you know and how can a man know what was really the intention behind all of that? Speaker 1 26:58 <inaudible> Speaker 0 27:00 I as a man would love to know that a woman is not having sex with me because I bought her food. That just doesn't seem to equate. I want to know that she has sex with me because she's attracted to me, drawn to me, physically compelled to share some form of sexual intimacy. And I know, I understand that for women it can be about the ability to provide, but I can't say enough that in these very early stages, ah, it can go both ways. So I know we're going into some very uncharted territory and I'm saying some very extreme things. You might be a little rattled up and I'm not sure if you've ever explored your beliefs on this before. Maybe you haven't. Maybe you have, but it can bring a lot of things to light. And that's why this discussion is great. It makes you ask yourself, what are your intrinsic motivations for offering sex or giving sex or for offering and giving money. Speaker 0 27:51 So watch how just semantics and wording can change so much here. We've been saying that if you have the expectation that money should be spent on you by way of gifts, food and events, self care, and your social life, there's another way you can look at this as well. Have you ever found yourself saying something like this? I won't ever have sex with someone who can't afford to take me on a first date. I won't be intimate. I won't be involved with, I won't get into a relationship with the man who can't even do the simple task of taking me out on a first date. I know what a real man is. Real men know it. Real men are and if you need to even ask, then I don't even have to explain and I'm not going to be with you. I won't be spending time with someone who can't afford me or afford my lifestyle. Speaker 0 28:37 I feel like if we are honest with ourselves and we really look within, there's a very direct correlation to what that symbolizes. Now at the end of the day, there are still two things that will be true. I can say all of this. You can reflect on it all you want and women will still feel better when a man pays for the first date and they'll think that there's something literally mentally wrong with anyone who thinks otherwise, that that's just not how it goes. And number two, you can in fact live that way. You can live a very full happy life with your husband, always taking care of things while you frolic and play. However, it's really worth giving your attention to these things because that mentality does sound a little bit like consciously choosing to enslave yourself. It's worth knowing if you mind or you don't mind working your butt off so that someone else can play and enjoy and be free while you toil away at work. Speaker 0 29:34 And from my perspective, I'd much rather have a mutually enjoyable experience than having to give up a large portion of my so that someone else can just be having a good time. Speaking of giving it up, when it comes to sex, we all know we need consent from a woman for this to happen. She has the final say so of whether or not you will be having sex with her as a man. They are the undisputed gatekeepers. However, oftentimes when you hear a woman's speaking about having sex, she refers to it as though she's not actually taking part in it or as though it's not something that she's enjoying as well. She's giving something up, giving it up a sacrifice, a surrender. Women often refer to it as letting him have some, or letting him get some men off and say, I got some last night married. Speaker 0 30:24 Women endlessly refer to giving their husband's sex. I gave him sex last night because I thought that's what he wanted or I thought that's what I should do. Even the thought of, I'm going to give him some tonight. The woman who's speaking like this, at least from my end, it sounds like she's not getting anything back in return. There's no pleasure in it for her. She's not getting any enjoyment. In fact, it's a sacrifice of some sort for her to give something up to a man. I mean, does she keep her little vagina in a cupboard, in a box, totally separate from her and she gonna unlock it tonight and give it to her man to play with for an hour while she reads her magazines and does her nails or is she actually taking part in this co-creative sexual experience as well? Is she sacrificing, not feeling it, not enjoying it, not savoring it, it's just him getting all the enjoyment or is there something more going on here? Speaker 0 31:16 Sex for me has always been a mutual exchange, very much a connection between two people and in fact I've always felt that women have it even better than men. They can feel so much incense so much. Their whole body ignites with pleasure and sensation. They feel it everywhere, not just in one place. Plus it's on the inside so it's so much more internal. It just feels like you get such a richer experience compared to the sort of genital centric focus that a man has to have when he's having sex. We can go down all sorts of rabbit holes with this, but I think it's really important just to understand when it comes to this idea of paying, do you feel inspired to do so? Are you inspired to be generous and kind and giving and loving and taking care of someone else? Those are very nice masculine qualities, or are you going through the motions because of something? Speaker 0 32:07 Fear based, fear of lack, fear of not quote unquote getting some fear that you will have to pay yourself. Fear that you won't be deemed as good enough or manly enough or suitable enough for her if you don't do your choices come from inspiration or lack or said differently. Inspiration or desperation. There's nothing I enjoy more than taking care of someone who really appreciates it and really reflects back to me their enjoyment of what we're doing. Which leads right into our next section about what is appreciation for you? What does appreciation mean really? I think for most people, if they think about it or if they're honest, they think appreciation is saying two words, thank you. Or that was really nice. Or one sentence where they reflect back some form of appreciation which often reveals itself as being a couple of words. Don't you find that true for yourself? Speaker 0 33:05 How exactly do you show your appreciation? Do you say anything beyond thank you? Do you do anything different often as men, we just want to feel appreciated. You want some form of acknowledgement? I want to ask men, is it just the two words that you're looking for? Thank you. Is a sincere thank you enough to make you feel satisfied or do you want more? And I think women listening might say, well yes, that's exactly what it should be. We do want to give selflessly and again, I am one of those people who has given without expectation and taken people out just for the sheer joy of doing so. But there is sort of an odd thing when you have a deflated sense of appreciation, especially if you yourself have put more thought into something or if there's more money involved. On the one hand we have this concept of not expecting anything in return when we give to others. Speaker 0 33:59 And on the other hand we have this thought of showing your appreciation. One should always be appreciative or be grateful or give thanks for what's given to you. Sometimes it can be very difficult to discern if someone is authentically appreciating you since there's no way to tell for the most part if it's real or not, you have to go exclusively by sensation or what you feel in your body. And it's tricky because you can fake it. So when I'm talking about not expecting it, I don't mean pretending to fumble through her purse or her wallet to pull out a credit card and then you say, no, no, I got it. And they go, are you sure? And you say, aha, I'm sure. And they go, Oh, thank you so much. I don't mean that nonsense. But I think when you have something done for you again and again and again, day in and day out, people taking care of you or cleaning up after you or giving money to you or purchasing you gifts or buying you dinner, then I think that kind of person can't help but to get used to it. Speaker 0 34:52 And so all they can say is, thanks or thank you, I really appreciate it. Whatever sentence comes out of their mouth, but I'm not sure that it really hits them in that special place. Whereas there's nothing I like more than at least being under the impression that someone really is deeply appreciating it. It's hard to tell. It's hard to know, but I do feel like at least I try to calibrate myself in a way where I can know for sure. We're really getting close to touching on something. So groundbreaking women. Imagine for a moment that you know how to cook really, really well. You want to really impress a man. This could be a first date, it could be a 10th date, or it even could be something you're doing for your lifelong partner, so you want to prepare for him and homemade dinner this evening. Speaker 0 35:38 You set the table with a nice tablecloth and linens. You spend hours in the kitchen preparing some sort of delicious feast. You really like the guy, you get your hair done, you wear something really pretty. Maybe you purchased a new outfit and this guy arrives and you of course have done all of this with zero expectation in mind, right? You said to yourself, this is just like when a man asks me out on a date or does something nice, I want him to have zero expectations. So you also told yourself you have no expectations. Yes, it would be really crazy for you to expect him to show tons of appreciation, get a little frisky with you afterwards, make out maybe make love, maybe have sex, you're just cooking out of the kindness of your heart just for fun. Right? So he arrives and says nothing about how your house looks or how clean it is, how nice you look or how pretty you are, how nice the table looks and even nothing about how the dinner tastes is not mean or rude. Speaker 0 36:36 In fact, there's nothing negative about him. But throughout the course of dinner he doesn't touch you once. Does it make prolonged eye contact but doesn't seem particularly disinterested to be there? He's just there. But as the night progresses, you realize you're almost expecting some appreciation because there is none. He's not thanking you for anything or making faces like the dinner tastes good or demonstrating with his face or body language that he's enjoying himself, which is kind of all you invited him to do. You didn't say, please come over with expectations. You said, I'd like to cook you dinner. You really like him, you welcome his touch, but you get none and at the end of the night he thanks. You graciously smiles and says, I should probably go. You know, you know there's something deep inside of you, one that either got your motor going and you're even more curious and you want it even more, or you're a little crest fall on you like, ah, dang. Speaker 0 37:32 What does it take? Like what happened? What did I do wrong? Maybe you take it personally or maybe you assume he doesn't like you all together, but there's a bit of a sense of, Oh, I did all this for nothing. You don't want to believe that. You don't want to think it was all for nothing. You want to believe that you did it selflessly. You want to believe that you could just enjoy your own cooking and had a nice evening with someone you like. But if it goes absolutely nowhere can you not help yourself, but to have fallen expectations that you didn't even know you had or you knew damn well that you had, of course, why? Why can you not help yourself? But to feel a little bad or uncomfortable, a little expectant because the investment was so great. You took so much time and energy out of your life to prepare for this man. Speaker 0 38:19 It's so much energy. So now consider something that you're really good at, whether it's at work or it's a hobby and activity that you know you do really well, and it's taken you a long time to get there. Now imagine that for whatever reason you're going to teach a perfect stranger about what you do. You're going to give them all your secrets, all your energy, everything you know you're going to condense 20 years of experience into one lesson so that this person has a really strong headstart. So imagine you spent all this time, maybe several hours teaching and explaining and they're nodding and taking it in and at the end they just say, well, thank you so much. That was nice. I appreciate it. And then maybe instantly get on their phone or go do something else or just leave after you spent several hours and they just say that one sentence. Speaker 0 39:06 Thanks. Dinner was great. Thanks. I appreciate the lesson. If you do think that's all you need, and that's enough on both of these situations, the one where you invite a man over in the one where you teach him a skill, could you continuously sustain yourself doing that multiple times a week or a month? Could you give on that level without any expectation in return and without wanting anything back? Just your time, your energy, your livelihood, giving to someone. That's a little bit what it's like when a man prepares something wonderful for you on a first, second, third, or fifth date all the time. The focus, the energy, the resources, the money. All of these things go into preparing something special for you. And it's not right to expect sex or that you have to do anything in return. But there's a huge energy exchange and I think sometimes it just gets lost on women that they just expect favors, bonuses, trips, drinks, experiences, VIP access, all of this stuff just because for no other reason than they think they deserve it. Speaker 0 40:13 And a man invest an enormous amount of time and energy. So yes, again, for the Hunter at the time, this episode, not fair to expect sex or expect something from your body physically, but can you see how much energy is put in to only get thanks for dinner or Hey, I really appreciate dinner tonight in return and this is why I come back to over and over again. Not making it about money so much in the beginning. Does a man paying for your dinner entitle him to touch you or kiss you or be with you? Of course not. But he certainly hopes that it does. And you certainly can't help but feel, ah, I don't want to be obligated. Do something I don't want to do. And how can you not feel a little obligated if you get all dressed up, you get taken out to dinner, doors are opened for you, chairs pulled out for you after dinner experiences maybe night on the town drinks, purchased, listening to you talk for multiple hours tuning into you being present with you, being there with you. Is it all just because that's what you deserve with every man you come into contact with? Hmm. And I want to conclude with talking about surprises for a moment because expectations and surprises do tie into one another. Most people want to be pleasantly surprised when they're taken out, particularly to not know what's going to happen. To not be able to see the future, to have something be a pleasant surprise. Speaker 0 41:40 Can you have a pleasant surprise or surprise of any kind with high expectations or if you're expecting a man to take care of you all the time, something can't happen over and over and over again and still leave you feeling surprised or special. Sometimes especially with expected people or people who want to maintain a certain lifestyle very quickly. It shifts from being purchased a special gift or receiving a special dinner. Suddenly an expectation becoming the necessity to purchase every plane ticket, concert, ticket, cruise ticket, beverage, ticket, raffle, ticket parking ticket. You get the idea. Speaker 0 42:21 All right. The next section deals with a lot of inner work for both men and women. We're starting with ladies first and it's going to be a series of questions for you to ask yourself. You can pause the audio if you like or you can think through it quickly. I do recommend pausing, but if you're not really interested in doing some mental work, you can just jump ahead about five minutes or so to the 53 54 minute Mark or to the point where I'm not asking any more questions. Okay. Let's take a look at some core beliefs. If you are a woman, do you believe that simply by virtue of being born a woman or born female you deserve and are altogether entitled to an all access pass to a man's bank account. And do you differentiate based on how long you've known him? So do you feel like you deserve it if you haven't even met him yet, he's someone who's about to take you out or you've only gone on a few dates together. Do you feel entitled to his bank account or things that he can purchase you with it? If you've been dating for a few months Speaker 0 43:20 and do you feel entitled to it long term? Like if you're married, do you have the simple belief that you should be treated to things that people should buy things for you no matter how small or big, whether it's a dinner, a coffee, a tea. If you do, what is your reasoning behind that? Why do you think you are owed this or deserve this or that's just what should be done? Do you believe that your status or the way you carry yourself and walk around the kind of sunglasses you wear, purse you have and shoes you wear entitles you to having men make purchases for you? Speaker 1 43:57 <inaudible>. Speaker 0 43:58 Do you believe that because of how you look, your physical beauty or how you've made yourself look through waxing, threading, shaving, trimming, dying, implanting and exercising or more specifically the shape of your thighs, butt, boobs, et cetera, is an even exchange for a man or another individual to purchase things for you. Do you believe that men are put here on this planet or serve the purpose of or are here to simply provide for you or provide for women or do you foster a belief that part of being traditional, regardless of your roles involves men just taking care of women no matter how much money they make. Do you have a belief or expectation that if a man takes care of dinner or events on the first, second, third date, that this should also carry through to the relationship and forevermore? Do you believe? If the answer is yes, that the same man should not expect anything from you other than the most minimal amount of showing up or being friendly and sweet. Speaker 0 45:11 If you do believe that a man should take care of all things on the first date, no matter what, do you also believe that your only obligation is to show up and you want the date to have no obligation, no pressure, no expectation, but you do expect him to treat you a certain way and behave a certain way towards you and of course pay for things financially. Do you not want him to have any expectation, but you expect to receive compliments on how you look or how you put yourself together? Compliments on who you are, his attention on you at all times and not wondering if any part of you feels that way or has felt that way. Ask yourself why? What is your rationale and why do you think that you deserve this? What is it that makes you feel? I'll just use the word entitled to having either perfect strangers or other men in your life or people who know very little about you. Take care of you, make purchases for you. Take out his card instead of yours, not ask for anything from you financially. Is it because you feel incapable of doing it? Is it because you believe you can't? Is it because you are a woman? Is it because he's a man? Do you have a belief that you can't earn your own resources or that there's something preventing you from earning your own money? Is it laziness? Is it because it's easier that way? Is it because it makes you feel special? Is it because it's what you think is romantic? What are your true beliefs about it? Speaker 0 46:47 We're working our way through this. I know I'm posing extremely challenging questions. I know I'm using specific kinds of wording to really make you evaluate and explore where your values are, so thank you very much for working through this with me and now some probing questions for the men. If you are a man, do you believe that spending any quantity in any sum of money on a woman entitles you to sex, intimacy, any kind of access? Do you feel that in some way a girl is obligated to share herself with you because you're footing the bill? Do you feel that when you're in a group setting that you should pay for everything because your culture demands it of you? If you've paid for the previous five dates for a lady and then you go out to a social gathering where you're with her friends or your friends and the bill comes, do you feel obligated to pay for her? Would you be embarrassed if you didn't? What would your friends think if you didn't do you pay because it makes you look like the better man, the better person because you think that's what being a gentleman is or do you pay because you have so many excessive amounts of resources, so much money, you don't know what to do with it and so it's just a no brainer. Everyone else doesn't. You do so you might as well just pay for everything. Speaker 0 48:20 Do you do it because you'll get the respect, admiration and appreciation from those around you. Do you feel like you pay for women so that you can look good? Do you pay for women or take women out so that you have a better chance of getting laid or so that you can have the opportunity to connect with her on a deeper level afterwards? Have you noticed a trend of women having sex with you when you do pay for the first date and so you maintain this as a habit from a very early age because you notice that you were rewarded for doing so. Do you treat because it makes you look like the alpha male? Do you play the game? Have you noticed that certain women expect certain things and when you do them you get sex? Do you pay for things for women and other people because it gives you a strong sense of control over them. Do you pay for women? Because you've noticed that no good deed goes unpunished and that people feel a sense of obligation to you. And so when you do something, people constantly feel like you are owed back for what you paid for. Do you find yourself often paying for things that you can't afford or paying for things despite having a sick feeling in your stomach? Speaker 0 49:37 Do you find yourself feeling somewhat tense, ill or uncomfortable about not even thinking you should pay for something, not even wanting to, but the prospect or the possibility of getting her is just so damn good. So you do it anyway. Do you believe that you just love to do it? What feelings does paying give you? Speaker 0 50:05 And here's a good segue into our next section on giving. What does it mean to you? If someone tells you that they are or you tell someone that you are a giver? Many women are giving by nature and many women feel that they give through their nurturing or their honesty or their sincerity or their time, their presence. Many people who are very generous probably know that it's not the case that you can just give and give and give and give and give and give some more without eventually becoming wiped out. Whether it's financially, energetically, and you're feeling exhausted or emotionally if you give too much sex without feeling fulfillment in it yourself, there's no way that resentment, frustration and exhaustion is not going to ensue. Most women know that they can't give indefinitely. They find it exhausting, overbearing and they don't want to feel like they're in a constant position of endlessly giving and yet, and here's the biggest point of all this. Speaker 0 51:05 Many women also hold the expectation that a man should infinitely indefinitely be generous and giving of his resources for his entire life without any end in mind. No one in life can give endlessly of themselves without feeling number one depletion and without filling. Number two, some form of expectation in return, even if all you're expecting is appreciation. So for the most selfless of us all, what are we getting in return? And I'll invite you to consider. Again, if simple appreciation or someone saying the words thank you is enough, but psychologically on the inside what's happening, you also get to feel ancillary needed, loved, wanted, desired. We're always getting something out of what we're doing even if it appears at the onset that someone is very giving in nature. Of course the mandatory disclaimer is it's not to say that everything has to be transactional. A tit for tat. Speaker 0 52:02 I do this for you, you do this for me, I scratch your back. You scratch mine. Many people live their life this way, but it doesn't need to be where you're keeping lists and comparing and only keeping things a hundred percent equal. Also that becomes very tiring and annoying. But the gray area is what we're focused on here and it certainly doesn't need to be the case that every gesture is reciprocated with another gesture in return from you back and forth, back and forth. And yet almost anything we can look at in life has its basis in give and take, ebb and flow day and night, life and death, the way a wave comes out and crashing down and then gets sucked back into the ocean. The way seasons work, it's a breathing an in and an out of back and forth. And so it's really about finding that balance you cannot give indefinitely without having some resentment occur if there isn't a natural ebb and flow, give and take in the relationship. Although it can be very arbitrary. What that give and take in the relationship actually is. So ladies and gentlemen, what are you giving in your relationship or to your lover or to the person who you're just sleeping with right now? What are you giving them a value in exchange for what you're getting? Speaker 0 53:18 Entitlement. It's a very interesting word, isn't it? Doesn't it sound nice after all, when you, everyone alive on this planet deserves to be happy. Everyone deserves and is entitled to fresh water, a place to sleep, a clean home to live in. Everyone is entitled to have food, shelter, and water. Contrast that with how you feel when you listen to a few of these phrases. A man is entitled to sex anytime he wants it. A woman is entitled to a man's money anytime she wants it. A woman by virtue simply of being born is entitled to VIP access. Special access a woman is entitled to getting in the door first including special events and clubs and fancy VIP access only. Retreats, trips, cruises, adventures, all free of charge because she's entitled to it because she just happened to be born female. Can a man do and have whatever he wants simply because, well, he was born a man and hopefully in hearing all of these and the constant switching back and forth, you have a resounding no as your answer. Speaker 0 54:30 All right. Let's take a look at another very interesting scenario and one that I can equate a couple of very personal stories with. What happens when the female partner earns way more than her male counterpart? Let's say for instance, the man earns something to the tune of 40 to 60,000 a year and she earns three hundred thousand five hundred thousand seven hundred fifty thousand dollars a year. Is it still a man's job obligation, responsibility, duty as being a man to pay for everything or to pay for the first several dates is taking turns appropriate or splitting it 50 50 does that feel right? If a man asks or requests that a woman pay more than her share more than 50% because she earns more, how does she feel about it and how that affects sexual attraction? What if he makes 25 or 30,000 and she makes 70 80 or 90 what if he's making 20,000 a year and she's making half a million a year? Speaker 0 55:32 Well, I would venture to say even with these resources, I don't believe the resources change. A woman's inherent nature. Even a woman who has all of that would still want to feel as she might say like a lady or a girl or a woman. And part of feeling that way is having a man take care of things for her. And to some degree, taking care of things involves obviously providing financially. Now I have to say we are speaking about certain types of men and women. There's certainly are more women who fall on the masculine side or who love being independent earners like we spoke about earlier and who don't feel that need to be taken care of. So of course I recognize this is not for everybody, but this is how it tends to be for most people. If you meet someone who's kind and loving and an artist and he's incredible and he sweeps you off your feet, he's super poor and can't take you to dinner, do you still feel slighted? Speaker 0 56:26 Do you feel like you're missing out on a Prince charming who would just take care of everything for you? So we'll talk a little bit later again about who makes more and what's involved with that. But in a sense, all of these thoughts lean on another very common concept that comes up when we're discussing price. The wage gap, one of the most common arguments for why men should provide pay more or take women out the wage gap simply stated is the gap between what men and women are paid and what it most commonly refers to is the median annual pay of all women who work full time in year-round compared to the pay of a similar cohort of men. Sometimes it's compared to weekly or hourly and often it's compared to a specific or particular group of women. Of course, I'm not here to argue whether there is or is not a wage gap. Speaker 0 57:12 I know that there is and from what I can see it very much can affect the livelihood of women. In some cases the wage gap is an argument for many as to why men could be or should be kind more generous, more chivalrous and of course offered to pay for the first, second, third date and beyond the idea of very logically being because things are skewed in his favor and he makes more if it registers with you that he should, if you like that idea, he makes more so he should. He's earning more so he should pay more. He has more resources so he has more to give. Of course I can get behind that, but what if we flipped the roles like we were discussing earlier, what happens when she makes significantly more than he does? Should she then pick up the Slack and pay for all of the dates, especially if the difference is striking or huge. Speaker 0 58:08 What are my thoughts on this very sensitive subject? Of course, if you both happen to be employees, especially of the same company and there is an enormous difference in your wages, of course it's a no brainer for the man or whoever in that position makes more for them to pick up the Slack. But of course being involved with someone like this as questionable to begin with because should you really be dipping your pen in the company ink but say you have similar jobs or careers and there's this enormous discrepancy between what he makes and what she makes a very obvious, slanted, unfair difference that seemingly is just based on sex. Yes, of course it makes sense that that partner would pay more often and be more generous because there's a very clear and obvious wage gap and we know this is a problem and someone having to invest their personal resources that they might need for a rainy day or an emergency situation to just go out for drinks and dinner and just having some fun with someone which is entirely frivolous, especially when you don't know how the date's going to wind up or if you're even going to like one another. Speaker 0 59:07 To me it's silly but I will maintain, I think the rule should apply to both men and women now where everything changes is in the arena of entrepreneurship. People who own their own companies and businesses and who are investors are own investments. Anyone who's self employed and can have something as simple as a car wash business or a nail salon or a casting agency or brokerage firm, maybe shear he invests in startup companies, maybe she sells stuff on Etsy. What happens when gender does not matter and your level of wealth is not controlled or dictated by your sex? You'll find this is especially true if you have an online business. Nobody knows who you are and no one cares because they're going to be paying the same price for your product no matter what. Both women and men can sell their products on Amazon for the exact same price. Speaker 0 59:58 Now earlier on we were discussing whether the person who asks should be the one to pay, and I can tell you another great story from personal experience about this. Many years ago I was dating an Eastern European woman from Belarus and throughout our dating history I was paying for everything you can imagine and I didn't think twice about it. I was taking her to dinner and lunch and cooking and all these places and after a few months it really dawned on me. I thought to myself, you know, she doesn't even really say thank you all that much. It's just sort of expected. Am I even getting enjoyment from doing this? And furthermore, have I got myself into a position that I don't want to be in simply because that's what's expected of me to make matters worse because I knew her pretty well. We'd dated for a long time. I knew she came from a very successful family. Speaker 0 00:45 Strives Alexis, she lives in Malibu. She supports her own family. Well, one day she asked me to help her log in to one of her bank accounts that she was having trouble with. And of course the first thing you see when you log into a banking website is your balance. And my God, was there ever a balance, several hundred thousand dollars in cash, not dropped up in investments, not her parents' money. Well, not only was that significantly more than I had at the time, but this was only one of her several bank accounts that she had told me about. So one day she invited me down to Malibu and suggested that we go to lunch. And even picked the place where we should go. I think the total of the check probably came to around $50 and as usual when the bill came, the waitress slid the bill in my direction. Speaker 0 01:30 So I let it sit there for a few minutes. She let it sit there for a few minutes and we waited and waited and waited. And so I said to her, these knives on the Chico, it would really make me feel valued and appreciated and loved. If you took me to lunch once in awhile, simple, clean, elegant. That statement, that friendly, calm, carefully thought out statement. Well, let's just say it unleashed the crackin. What followed was an aggressive, combative slew of insults, attacks, degradation, and all out war. The things that came out of this woman's mouth, how dare you, she proclaimed, how could you, do you not know that I have men who want to buy me islands, men who want to buy me houses and cars. Men are willing to do anything for me. And you want me to pay for a stupid little lunch? How cheap, how miserly and I just sat there with my jaw on the floor staring at her in disbelief as this was happening. Speaker 0 02:33 Obviously this was the beginning of the end, but it was also the beginning of many absurdly lengthy discussions about exactly what the man's job role and obligation is in the relationship. And in case you may have missed what's really important here, let me break it down one more time. All of her insults dealt with being cheap, being miserly, which was shocking how she even knew this word. All of that negativity pointed outward attacking someone else, but who was the one who was being cheap, who was the miser, and yet she had absolutely no issue whatsoever about being furious that I wouldn't pay for one little lunch. Now granted, this was also a woman who had that poor, poor affliction of referring to herself as a goddess, a Loveday T, a Pleidian beauty that's from another planet. If he didn't know, interestingly years later, I wouldn't say I got an apology, but there was a point where some words were exchanged. Something about, well, I was young at 30 years old. I was learning and figuring things out and I think make up for her behavior even though the words, I'm sorry, never passed her lips. Speaker 0 03:41 She went on to tell me that apparently in her country, men would stumble over themselves for the opportunity to buy her flowers. In fact, she showed me several photographs of the vast, ornate arrangements of bouquets she wants received. I observed these photographs of her. In fact, I believe I still have them gazing with a hollow stare into the camera with pouty lips, looking as though she might be mildly agitated with skin that looked as though it was made of porcelain, much like a doll. She later would run out of places to put all of the flowers in her house because the arrangements were so abundant. The suitors were so many. This is what was done in Belarus. She would proclaim this is how all men would behave towards her. This is what she was used to. They begged for the chance to pay for her. Speaker 0 04:21 She would say they loved demonstrating their Manliness and love to spend all of their money and resources on her. Nevermind if they didn't have a car or a nice home or anything like that. As long as they were spending their money on her. If there are two sides to every equation, someone who's being paid for and someone who's getting something as a result of their paying, hopefully we can acknowledge that there isn't really such a thing as someone who is truly delighted each and every time to take care of every bill. No matter what. There is always a give and take. There is always some form of expectation. If you do think that men exist to simply give and give and give endlessly and relentlessly from their bank account, consider this. Imagine you're on a date with a man who you find very attractive and you're out in the city doing some fun things and when it comes time to have some gelato, he stands there and allows you to pay and when it's time to go see a, he just lets you pay and when you go have dinner afterwards, somehow and amazingly, he just lets you pay. Speaker 0 05:25 The check comes, he just pushes it over in your direction. How long could you handle that for? How many days, dates or hours could you take him expecting you as a woman to pay for him? What would you do? Would you speak up runaway? Or if you're passive aggressive, call your girlfriend or guy, friend to come bail you out. At what point would you not be completely shocked, even if you just went on one date, I think it would take precious little for you to never speak to that person again or never want to find yourself in that position again. So one, I'd like you to see how abnormal it feels for you to pay for something all the time for someone else, it doesn't quite feel right. And number two, how deeply rooted your expectation is that you should not be doing this. How strongly you feel your knowing this is not something I should be doing. Speaker 0 06:19 Number three, I hope I drove the point home. Just how absurd it can start to feel for one person to do endlessly. All of the paying and all of the taking care of when would someone feel taken advantage of unless they have so many resources that it's just not a big deal. Imagine for a moment what your bank account balances and then imagine that you had in dollars the equivalent of a couple bucketfuls of sand and each grain of sand was worth $100. It wouldn't matter, and so of course for those who are really doing well or for whom money isn't a concern and who don't have to pay endless bills and live month to month, then it becomes a very different story when you're providing for someone else because it's so easy. It's like oxygen. Sometimes you come across men who proclaim how much they love it and how they don't understand other men who don't like to pay for women. Speaker 0 07:16 It's just something natural for them. Oh, I love to take care of women all the time. I always treat no matter what, I never let a woman pay. I don't think that these things are often rooted in the true joy of it. I think there's something behind it. A wanting to look good. Unacceptance wanting people to like you, wanting to feel good or of course having the expectation for something more. And I can say that even as someone who has been in familial situations where one person in the group has the most abundance, the most resources, and so it really makes them happy to be able to continue to pay because if they didn't, then the entire rest of the group would not be able to participate or enjoy or have such a thing. So it's a very fine line and it's a very fine balance if you think about it. Speaker 0 08:03 Even most parents don't want to be caught, stuck paying for their children for the rest of their lives indefinitely. Of course, the most wealthy ones always set their families up for the most part to be taken care for generations to come. But everyone else, how often, if you're a parent, if you have children who are maybe teenagers, 1718 years old, how often do you want to pay for all of their expenses? College sheets, bedding, food, vacations, gas insurance, health insurance trips. It just, it's endless. So we're saying that part of being able to be generous is having the resources, having the ability to give back, and that's actually an excellent argument for why money is not the root of all evil. If you enjoy contribution, caring for others, helping treating others, showing others experiences that they otherwise wouldn't have had before, whether it's something like feeding the homeless all the way up to being able to take a family member or a loved one on a trip or vacation. Speaker 0 09:03 While you need money to do that, you need large amounts of money to do it. You don't just want to do it once, you don't want to take mom to Paris once and then never have an opportunity like that again. How nice would it be to take the whole family on vacation? How nice would it be to replace one or two or three cars for family members brand new when one breaks down or when it's time for new one. So just a little food for thought about how nice having resources can be as we get ever closer to the conclusion of part two of who should pay for the first date. Let's take yet another perspective. This belief in women that men love to do it. Will you insult me by not letting me pay? It is insulting by not letting me pay. Please, please put card the way man love to pay theirs in their nature does what we do with this providing for woman. Speaker 0 09:54 We were talking earlier about whether or not men love to do this and I gave you a few stories and examples of why I think that's silly. Now I want to add another concept, secondary gain. The idea that you do something because it seems like it's out of the kindness of your heart, but there's something in the background that you're gaining from it. So a simple example to clear all of this up. Imagine a man calls you on the phone, whether you're a man or a woman and says, hi, I could really use $150 to go out to dinner tonight and kind of in the mood to have a steak and lobster. Can you give me some money? How many of you would do that with no expectation and how often would you be able to do it if you started to receive regular calls, in other words, started going on regular dates with someone. Speaker 0 10:40 How often would you be able to spend $150 on a perfect stranger who you don't know anything about, who just flat out asked you for money and said you could join too if you want? Do you love it? Do you love paying? Then does it give you great pleasure to do so? Would you tell him, absolutely. Put your wallet away. I've got this. Let me regularly take care of this for you. For most of us. That sounds absolutely absurd and even if you would do it once as a kind gesture or because you have nothing else better going on or because you might think it's an opportunity to make a new friend or because you believe in contribution and this seems like a sign from the universe for you to take action while you are getting some sort of secondary gain out of it because you feel good cause you're contributing, but what would it take for you to continuously take them out on dates or nights or dinners? Why then is there any difference when a man asks a perfect stranger who happens to be a woman out on a date, if you think it would be absurd to pay for perfect strangers to take them out on dates, just random people of the same sex, assuming you're heterosexual, then why on earth does it feel so okay or natural or acceptable for a man to take a woman out and not assume that he wants something more than that? Meaning it's not always necessarily from the kindness of his own heart. Speaker 0 11:58 If you're a straight man, what would it take for you to walk up to other men on the street and just start planning things for them? Hey, you seem like a nice guy. Why don't I send you to Hawaii with me next weekend? Hey, you seem like a cool guy. Why don't we go to dinner and I'll take care of it? Why then do you love doing it for women so much? Well, the truth of the matter is is it's because you hope you're going to get something out of it because with all things being equal and you're taking someone out on the first day, you know nothing about this person. What's their, what do you have to go on other than one's female and one's male. Speaker 0 12:34 The flip side for men is also worth examining as well. Men, how long would you continue to pay for a woman that you are seeing where you've sort of been expected to pay all the time or you've insisted on paying all the time if she stopped having sex with you? Completely. What I'm trying to say here deals with not being deceitful. It's okay to pay for women. It's okay to say you love to do it. It's okay to say you want to do it, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and say I would do this for anybody. You want to do it for women specifically. For the most part, you're interested in a date, some intimacy or sex and if you're aware of that you have consciousness around that. You can speak that more power to you. Nothing wrong with saying, I love treating women because it generally means that I'm liked more or even that I wind up having sex. Speaker 0 13:19 Those are hard things to admit, but truth is so much better than trying to paint yourself up to be such a heroic figure because you're so kind and so generous and this is the only reason why you do it and yes, of course I'm speaking to a particular subset of men and not every single man on the planet. Most men would not provide a dime for men who they are not physically attracted to, where they wouldn't mind doing it for a woman to the drop of a hat. And is that chivalry? Is that the true definition of it? I think it's really important for women to understand this side of things, to not go through life thinking that men are simply kindhearted souls and only want the best for you and want to take care of you with no expectation in return. I wish we lived in a world like that. Speaker 0 14:04 I think it would be incredible to live like that. I love Disney movies too. I cry in them. I wish things were a little more like that. And I'm the guy who also has paid for dinners out of the kindness of my heart and and just because, or because I'm able to, but it's just not the norm. When we talk about all these romantic gestures about taking care of women, about doing things on the first date, very seldom do we also then speak about the aftermath. What if a man puts an enormous amount of effort into having an incredible evening with you and to creating something perfect with you on the first, second, third date, and during or after. At best, all you can manage to say is, I'm not into it. I'm not feeling it. I have no obligation to do anything or continue. Speaker 0 14:47 And as soon as someone says I'm not feeling it, then it's like game over. Doesn't matter what he thinks. Doesn't matter what he wants, your not interested. So it's as if all the effort, all of the resources or meals or desserts or whatever he did that evening, it just goes out the window. It's just disposable. That's the end. And if you told any of your girlfriends, you know, I told him I'm not feeling it and then he fill in the blank, continued to pursue or call or try to get you or continue to date you more or take you out again or be intimate. Your girlfriends will likely immediately back you up and tell you how creepy or rude or inconsiderate this man is being. And why doesn't he just get it? Why do I bring all of that up? It's so powerful in understanding the whole story. Speaker 0 15:28 You want to be able to instantly, without even blinking an eye, shut a man down and have him never speak to you again or block his number or runaway or simply say thank you for the day, but that's not for me. You want that option to completely have nothing to do with him ever again, but you also want him to pay for things. You want him to be chivalrous. You want him to take care of things. You want him to demonstrate for you why he should be a suitor. And so there's always two sides. It's great when it works out. It's great if you go on an incredible first date and then you're intimate a few days later or even the same night, wonderful when you have chemistry, but when you don't, you got to see what an incredible investment it is on the other side. So he should take you out, have no expectations, pay for everything on the first, second, third date, but you are allowed to ghost vanish, block, be late, be rude, be cold. Speaker 0 16:24 Be distant, be totally in near self, not talk again, never call, give no explanation, not respond, not answer. And all of that's really, really hard when you're investing in someone. So on the one hand, it's so romantic when a man takes a woman out on a first date and on the other hand I get to block you, never talk to you, ignore you, ask you to never contact me again, take full advantage of the evening. And if I just on a whim decide that I'm not feeling it and the whole thing is game over. Of course, if you're not feeling it, it's your right to not talk to someone again. Either party could decide that. But then to also have the expectation that men do certain things like these grandiose gestures to me is completely unreasonable. So that's why I'll often say that women have very low risk when it comes to investing into someone on the first date. Speaker 0 17:15 If you're meeting someone publicly outside of putting on some clothes and showing up, there's not a lot that you're taking on. Both people are investing their time and their energy. Both people are thinking about it, getting ready, taking their time. That's not unique to either person, but it is the case way more often for women that you're going to wind up being taken care of and then also having the opportunity to say, no, I'm not feeling it. I'm not into it. I don't like him. There's just something funny. I don't think I've even ever heard a man tell me I'm not feeling it. I'm not into it. I wasn't into her when talking about whether he wanted to continue something with her on a first date. So ladies, how many times have you gone out on a date and been more than happy to let him pay? Whether it's because he insisted it's just was done, he whipped out his wallet or you just have that expectation and then you never spoke to him ever again. Speaker 1 18:10 <inaudible> Speaker 0 18:11 how many times have you gone out on a first date with someone? You have his number and something in you shifts, you get back with the next, you pursue someone else, you suddenly decide you're not interested. You think you saw a red flag and so you texted a little bit and then never spoke to him again. Why did he fund an experience for you if you knew almost immediately that you'd never see him again? Not just be friends, but actually never speak to one another again. And men want things for different reasons. Some people are happy to pay for company, but ladies, you also have to consider that if you're never talking to multiple guys again after you go out on dates with them and the man's paying for each of these dates, it's just an endless stream of money coming out of the guy's pocket. And I don't think that's fair to men. Women will often say, well, a man shouldn't be dating if he can't afford to take a lady out, you should have a job or some form of employment. Yes, it helps if you are employed when you're in the dating field, but it doesn't have to be that way and it doesn't mean that anyone should be taken advantage of. Speaker 0 19:11 So some of the deeper places that we have to look when we're really exploring why people do things are the emotional validation that people receive when they do them. Even if someone paid all the time anonymously, that person is still feeling valuable. They're feeling like they contribute, they're giving back. Maybe they even feel like they're paying it forward. They are not taking credit for it. There's no ego involved. However, most men do want the recognition. They want to be seen as the one who paid or provided or who took care of things for you. And they also want to be seen as ranking higher in a dominance hierarchy. You take two man, you put them side by side, they're identical twins, they're attractive, intelligent, charming, charismatic one has a decent job and just doesn't make a ton of money, but he's not broke. And the other is a multimillionaire. Which one are you going to choose? Which one are any of us going to choose which one is going to have sex first? Which one is going to get to procreate first? So this leads us to a very interesting discussion about why a man should pay, why should he do it, and what are the reasons for it? What qualities are women most often looking for in men? Of course, one of those top qualities is their ability to provide their ability to support, to earn, to generate. And the interesting thing is most women aren't as concerned with what a man earns as much as his potential to earn.